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Comments 2016

Hawley

Is there any literature about the Sanatorium on Longfield Lane. My husbands great grandfather John Hawley died there on 26 Sept 1898 of Enteric Fever (typhoid?)

Diane Reeve (January 28th 2016)


In reply to Diane Reeve.

Diane,

I would think that a possible source of information might be found at Ilkeston Reference Library. Its first-class index should quickly tell you if it holds anything to help you.

I have just found a snippet in the Nottingham Evening Post for April 1891 … an article stating that a letter from Ilkeston Corporation about charges for the care of fever cases at the Sanatorium. There are several other articles in the same newspaper and in the Derby Telegraph on the Sanatorium covering the next ten years.
I found them using the Findmypast website (subscription). If you don’t have access to this you could try Ancestry.co.uk which is available free at Ilkeston Library.

I expect that you might want something a bit more substantial, or you might want a specific question answering?
Can anyone help?

Dave (January 29th 2016)


Beardsley

Dear Dave,
I am an avid follower of your site, especially the latest project concerning photos and information on Stanton Road cemetery, but the last entry dated 26th March has me confused. It concerns the gravestone of the children of Amos and Sarah Beardsley (nee Birch) and the first child buried – John Albert 1864.
According to the burial records listed previously on your site commencing 1864 there is no mention of John Albert, but seven more Beardsley children from 1868 to 1880. Is this initial burial entry in 1864 missing from the records??
Also have you a photograph of the entire Beardsley gravestone, or just the top section relating to the first burial??
Regards, John Daykin (March 28th 2016)


In reply to John Daykin.

John,

With regards to the ‘missing’ burial of John Albert 1864, two possibilities spring to my mind ..
a) the infant was buried elsewhere, possibly at St Mary’s or at Kirk Hallam, though I don’t have the full burial records of either of these places to confirm or deny this possibility.
b) he was buried at Stanton Road but the burial is missing from the records. This would be an error on the part of those keeping the accounts …. as you can see all the burials were numbered and there is no break in the numbers for 1864.

The actual gravestone was most probably made after the deaths of all the children listed on it .. ie post 1878. It is more of a remembrance stone and so wouldn’t necessarily mark the site of John Albert’s resting place.

I have attached all the photos I took of the stone (off line) but if you want one that shows the whole list, it would be no trouble for me to take another one on my next visit
Dave (March 30th 2016)


Morley

Hi, Thank you for a brilliant website I have been able to complete a lot of family history as a result of your research and am hoping you may be able to give me a clue as to where to look for two missing members of the same family.

I am unable to find births for the following people both children of John Morley, schoolmaster and Mary Henshaw :
Solomon Morley born about 1811, he marries Mary Eaton and then Elizabeth Richards
and
Mary Morley born about 1826 according to the 1841 Census ( this is the Mary who had two illegitimate children with George Wright the landlord of the Spring Cottage Inn).

Would you also have any idea which school John Morley would have been a schoolmaster.?
Many thanks. Carol (April 7th 2016)


In reply to Carol.

Carol,

Thank you for the encouraging comment at the start of your question.

I have found nine children belonging to John and Mary Morley and unfortunately Solomon is the only one I have no baptism details for. Most of them were baptised at the Ilkeston Circuit of the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel after it was formed out of the Nottingham Circuit in 1809. I have found Samuel baptised at Halifax Place in Nottingham in 1806 … Solomon’s birth was about 1808 (his recorded age at death in 1874 was 66) which should mean a baptism possibly at the same place but I haven’t found him yet. Sorry.

As I said, most of the others were baptised at the Wesleyan Chapel, except for Mary … I have a baptism for her at Mansfield Woodhouse on June 8th 1826 which I believe I got at the County Archive in Nottingham. (And no, I have no clear idea why she would be baptised there !!)

While Mary married locally and died at 8 Vicarage St in 1901, Solomon left to work in the Barnsley area after his second marriage. I believe his wife Elizabeth died in 1858 and he married again to a widow (?) Elizabeth Atkinson in 1859 … but you will probably know more than me about this.

Their father John is described as a framework knitter up to about 1837 but then on the 1841 as a ‘scoolmaster’ in Cotmanhay…. as he is on the 1851 census. Quite often the census would indicate which school a master/mistress would work for …. for example if you look on the 1851 Ilkeston census you will see that Thomas Walton is a schoolmaster at the British School (Non-Conformist) in Bath Street whereas John Ryder is a master at the National School (Church of England). These were the two established schools in Ilkeston. This would lead me to suspect (and it is only a suspicion) that John Morley might have had his own Day School in Cotmanhay, and there were several of those, kept by both ‘schoolmasters’ and ‘mistresses’ in Ilkeston (see Dame schools)

I believe that John died in January 1853 (if this is he) at the Sun Inn in Eastwood when the Derby Mercury described him as the clerk at Christ Church, Cotmanhay … maybe his ‘school’ was associated with that? …. although in 1841 that church had not yet been built.
The Wesleyan Methodists had a chapel and Sunday School at Cotmanhay and maybe he was a teacher there. In 1851 there was a national religious census and it might be worth looking at the entries in it for Ilkeston but especially Cotmanhay, to see if John is mentioned? There is a copy at Ilkeston Reference Library and if you can’t get there I could easily have a look for you the next time I visit there.

Sorry I have still left you with ‘gaps’ but if there is anything else I might help with, please ask.

Dave (April 8th 2016)


Hi,
Thank you for the prompt reply, you have given me some leads to follow up. I didn’t have Samuel Morley listed as he never came up on a census but could be related as his parents John and Elizabeth married in October 1805 and the first child with documented evidence that I have is Solomon born abt 1808.

I have another query which you may be able to solve:
I have four generations of Rowland Hill Morley starting with the son of John Morley (schoolmaster) and Elizabeth Henshaw the name continues through each generation and finally dies out in 1968 as my husbands uncle remained a bachelor. My problem is I cannot find a link to the name Hill. Some descendants are not baptised with the name Hill Morley but it is entered on their death certificates and in the family Bible. Have you come across the surname Hill in Ilkeston or Nottingham?

Thank you
Carol (April 12th 2016)


In reply to Carol.

Carol,

The baptism of Samuel can be found in the records of the Halifax Place Wesleyan Chapel in Nottingham, on Oct 13th 1806, son of John and Mary of Cotmanhay.
I believe that he had a short life, being buried at St Mary’s Church on Sep 6th 1809, aged 3 years.

I was unaware of the line of ‘Rowland Hill Morleys’ which you are puzzled by. The only Rowland Hill I am aware of is the reformer who had a hand in the establishment of the so-called ‘Penny Post’.
The name Roland/Rowland seems to come from the Henshaw side of the family but I have no information on the name ‘Hill’ intruding into this line, as yet. Sorry.

Dave (April 13th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Hi,
Thank you for all your help, once again your research has been invaluable. You gave me the possible death of John Morley Schoolmaster as being at the Sun Inn Eastwood, further research using Ancestry has confirmed John Morley was a Freemason and he attended the Mundy Grove Lodge at the Bat Inn, Kennington, Shipley Gate, Derbyshire however his sons Rowland & Solomon Morley attended the Marquis of Granby Lodge who held their meetings at the Sun Inn, Market Place, Eastwood which is where you said he may have died. It is possible he transferred to this Lodge hence his demise at this location.

Carol (April 16th 2016)


Carol,

Your research fills in a few more gaps.
John Morley was buried at Christ Church, Cotmanhay on Jan 11th 1853.
The cause of his death was initially described as’choking by meat lodged in his throat’. However his ‘friends’ later indicated that this was incorrect … death was due to ‘paralysis’. (All this was covered in the local press.. the Derby Mercury and Nottinghamshire Guardian)

Dave (April 18th 2016)


The Sanders family of South Street/Derby Road

A request from Andy Sanders…
I would love to get more information on William Sanders and the other Sanders family that occupied the thatched house on South Street / Derby Road Junction. These were my great, great great & great great great grandfathers father’s. They occupied the property for 130+ years but would love to hear more. Previous to the Sanders family occupying this house it was possibly called the Cross Keys Inn and before that the Sunn Inn. I believe the property could date back as far as the 16th century. The house was finally destroyed in 1933 and the family moved around the corner to 13 Moss Road. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (April 28th 2016)


Spencer

Hi Dave
I’ve only recently begun to research my family tree, and came across your amazing website while looking up census forms. I really wanted to thank you for your wonderful site and all the information that you have so generously provided. It is a really warm website, and so nice to come across, it feels like a genealogy gift ! 🙂
I love the character and feel that you give to the people and the town of Ilkeston, it really brings the place alive.

I am descended from George Spencer and Elizabeth (Taylor), and earlier, Benjamin Spencer and Ann (Harrison).
I would love to ask you a few questions if that is ok?

Until then ( hopefully )
best wishes, Alodie (May 6th 2016)


In reply to Alodie.

Alodie,

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging comments on the site … I aim to please !!
And in that vein, let me say that I would welcome your questions … I cannot guarantee to answer them but I will certainly try, and will also put them on the site in case there are others who could help.

Dave (May 6th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Hi Dave

Thanks so much for getting back to me. I really do appreciate any pointers or help really. Like one of the comments below, i am still trying to get my head around the villages surrounding Derby.
I might do a scattergun approach and hope that there might be some questions you can answer:)

I would very much like to trace Ann Harrison further back ( she married Benjamin Spencer in 1811), and wondered if you had any ideas who her father was or where she might have come from?. I don’t think she was born in Ilkeston. I would love to know more about the Spencer and Harrison families ( i did read about Hillary Spencer’s suicide and Old Mary Spencer looking after the child that was killed ), but I haven’t read all the letters yet, but it’s rather dramatic so far!. I was also interested in what sort of area Park Road was situated in, and possibly the Lace Factory the Spencer family might have worked in.
Finally ( and this one is a bit random) . William and Ruth Webster were Benjamin Spencer’s parents. Ruth Webster had a sister called Elizabeth Civica Webster. Is it possible that they have an Italian connection and would that be at all likely in 1700’s Derbyshire ?

Please don’t feel like you need to answer any/all of these, I am actually just grateful for the information you have already supplied on your website.

Have a lovely evening
Alodie (May 6th 2016)


Hi Dave

I’ve been reading more on your great site, and I am enjoying it so much. I love the descriptions about the railway station and its cramped conditions. Have you ever thought about writing a book?.

I’ve been doing a bit more research and wondered if my Ann Harrison, born abt 1791 ( place unknown) might be, Nanny Harrison, born in 1791 in Ilkeston to Tim Harrison and Bennett? The mysterious Ms Bennett. I think Nanny is another form of Ann, but I could be wrong on this.
I’m guessing also that the Spencer’s worked at Carriers Lace Factory.

Anyway, I’m enjoying reading everything
best wishes
Alodie (May 8th 2016)


In reply to Alodie.

Alodie,

Ann Spencer (nee Harrison) died in Ilkeston on Jan 16th 1846, aged 54 which would make her birth year around 1791 … without other evidence it is extremely difficult to determine her parents. As you say there is a Nanny Harrison born to Timothy and Bennett (nee Limb) in 1791 and Nanny is used instead of Ann. They did have another ‘Nanny’ baptised Dec 29th 1782 who, I believe was buried Apr 27th 1786 (as Ann, daughter of Timothy). I can’t find a record of a burial of the second Nanny.

If you are unfamiliar with Ilkeston, there is an area called White Lion Square where several roads coming into/ going out of the town converge … Nottingham Road, Park Road, Derby Road, Stanton Road … their names indicate where they go to/come from.
The Spencer clan lived in Park Road for many years which was basically a country lane for most of its length in the 1850’s. The cottages on it were at one end, where the road emerged into White Lion Square, and were more on its south side than its north side. For most of its length it was unpopulated and basically followed the line of the present-day Park Road, down to the River Erewash. Towards the far end of the road in the countryside and away from the workers’ houses, were two large houses …the Park and Larklands, both owned at one time by the Potter family.

As you say the Spencers might have worked at Carriers Lace factory … I have no record of where they worked … there are perhaps more likely candidates for their employment. For example, in the 1850’s, Christopher ‘Kester’ Harrison traded in South St and Derby Road as a lace manufacturer and hosier, the Crooks family (neighbours of the Spencers) were lacemakers of this area. As the Spencers lived for several years in this area it is possible that they worked very locally, not far to walk? … though it isn’t a million miles to walk to the Carrier works off Bath St. The other large employer of lace workers was the Ball familyof the Albion Works in Burr Lane/Albion Place.

Finally the Italian connection. I assume that Ruth Webster was the daughter of William and Mary and baptised in Kirk Hallam (Feb 11 1759) .. the Elizabeth Civica Webster who you mention was baptised at West Hallam which is a neighbour of Kirk Hallam and so could easily be a member of the same family. However I am sceptical of an Italian connection .. although I would never rule anything out until there is evidence one way or the other’

I’m afraid I can’t be more definitive in any of my answers … mainly because I don’t have the evidence.

Dave (May 9th 2016)


Hi Dave, I hope you can see this reply as I’ve had to reply under my own post as there was no reply option next to your last post.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I had a few doubts that Ann Harrison was Nanny Harrison….clutching at straws maybe!. I’m leaning towards Ann Harrison being born elsewhere, as her place of birth ( Ilkeston ) would probably have been noted.

As for the Webster family, I was curious about them because Civica is such an unusual name, so I wondered if it was an old surname or something to do with the mother’s side. Perhaps they just like reading about Roman history or something:) I guess it will have to remain another family mystery.

Thank you for the description of White Lion Square and the roads leading off it. That has really helped me build a picture of Ilkeston and where my family lived and is very helpful. As is your information about the various lace factories. As you’ve probably guessed, I am very unfamiliar with Ilkeston, and because there are areas that I have had to research that don’t know at all, that is when I accidentally add extra relatives that aren’t mine:).
My 3 x great grandfather George Spencer had moved his family to Beeston by the 1861 census and my gt gt grandmother moved to Leicester when she was 20 and settled there with her family. So most of that side of my family are from Leicester and Birmingham area.

Thank you again for all your work.
Very best wishes
Alodie (May 10th 2016)


Tarlton

Hello, I’ve been looking on your site and was interested to see William Tarlton butcher. I am William’s great grandson and have a copy of a photo of him outside his shop(original in Erewash museum) which I display with pride at my workplace the butchers at Bellinis, Ilkeston thank you. Andy Fox (May 6th 2016)


In reply to andy fox.

Andy
If you are willing to share the photo that you have, I would be really pleased to put it on the site.
Dave (May 7th 2016)


Scattergood

Hello again Dave…

I hope this finds you well. I’ve picked your brains before and now I’m back in hopes of learning some information about my 2 x’s great grandmother Gertrude Scattergood (nee Simpson) b.1830 and d.1865 in Ilkeston. You were so very helpful with my 2 x’s great grandfather’s line (Samuel Scattergood b.1827 and d.1883 in Ilkeston) and I’m hoping you may be able to help with Gertrude.

As mentioned, Gertrude was born in Ilkeston on 13 June 1830 to Willoughby and Harriet (nee Hardy) Simpson. She married Samuel Scattergood on 24 Oct 1849 at St. Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. They had 6 children that I’m aware of, possibly 7. So this is where my question comes in. Allen/Alan Scattergood was Samuel’s last child (which would be his 7th), however I am trying to confirm whether Gertrude was his mother or if Samuel’s 2nd wife Jemima, whom it appears he married only a couple of months after Gertrude’s passing, was his mother. I am showing discrepancies for a birthdate for Allen/Alan.

On the FREEbmd website I find an Allen Scattergood born in the 3rd quarter in 1865 in Basford.
In the England Select Deaths and Burials 1538-1991 online records, I also have found a burial date of 25 Aug 1865 in Ilkeston for Gertrude Scattergood. However, I didn’t see the record of Gertrude’s burial on this site. I realize the birth records on this site don’t cover 1865 so I’m not sure where I might find something more concrete other than 3rd quarter 1865 for Allen’s birth.. My thought is that perhaps Gertrude may have died either giving birth to Allen or shortly thereafter.

I have the 1871 census that does show Allen as aged 5 with an estimated birth year as 1866, however, if I’m correct in my thinking, because the census was carried out on 2 April 1871, if Allen was indeed born sometime in the 3rd quarter of 1865, he wouldn’t have yet had his birthday.

If you can shed any light on Gertrude’s passing and/or Allen’s birth and my suspicions that she did pass either during or shortly after giving birth I would be very grateful.

I absolutely love this site and I come back often to read the new inquiries you have received from others in hopes I might find a family connection to someone new. So far no luck, but I still enjoy reading all the comments and seeing the amazing amount of information you give to everyone! I have recently started researching in newspapers and have found some very interesting entries regarding the Scattergood/Simpson families… I now call them my “dodgy” ancestors. But then I remind myself that if not for them I might not be here!

Thank you so much for all you do on this wonderful site, take care!
Brenda (May 26th 2016)


In reply to Brenda Sweeney.

Brenda,

I glad to hear that you are still enjoying the site and might continue to get use from it.

I don’t have precise details of the birth of Allen who was, I think, the seventh child. However you should not lose sight of the fact that when you access the FreeBMB site, you are getting details of the birth registration and not details of the birth. So although the birth of Allen was registered in the 3rd quarter he may well have been born in June of 1865 or even earlier.
You probably don’t want an extra expense but the only way to get a definitive answer to when Allen was born is to obtain the birth certificate, which will, of course give you all the details you are looking for, including who his parents were. My hunch … and only a hunch … is that Gertrude was his mother — whom you have identified died in Aug 1865.

I have found him on the 1881 census with his father on a canal boat at Sandiacre.

There is also the death of ‘Allen Scattergood’ in late April of 1889 at Derby .. his recorded death age was 23.
There is coverage of this death in several articles in the Derby Mercury and of the inquest which followed it … although the paper contradicts itself on the age of the deceased. I see that you are researching in newspapers and so you may have found this already (April and May 1889).

Dave (May 27th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Hi Dave,

Thank you for getting back to me so soon. I have to say your researching skills are obviously far more superior to mine because try as I might I am not finding anything about Allen Scattergood’s death. I am searching on http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk in the Derby Mercury and although I was able to find the death notice, I have not found anything else regarding his death or an inquest. Would you possibly have a page number(s) and date or possibly explain to me how you came across these articles. I did narrow my search to April and May 1889, but came up empty. My curiosity is piqued now… sounds like it might have been murder possibly??

I must say, I’m never surprised by the goings on of my Scattergood/Simpson relatives. They definitely were a dodgy bunch!

I think I will order the birth certificate for Allen also so that I can definitely confirm his parentage.

Thanks once again Dave!

Brenda (May 27th 2016)


Hi Dave,
Me again. My apologies… I did a little more digging and did come across the few articles of Allen Scattergood’s death. As mentioned, I’m still fairly new into newspaper research and didn’t take into account the possible misspelling of name and age variations. Well, it appears that Allen’s death was not as scandalous as a murder, rest his soul, but I have to say I do love reading of my ancestors in the paper, whether good or bad!

Also, thank you for mentioning the 1881 census. I had not come across it in my research but when you said you found Allen with his father I started searching again and lo and behold, there they were the “Scattergones”! No wonder I didn’t find them.

Lastly, in my original message I mentioned Gertrude’s burial in Ilkeston. I’m not finding any information on this site as to her date of death or place of burial. Would you happen to know any more details on that?

Many thanks,
Brenda (May 27th 2016)


In reply to Brenda Sweeney.

Brenda,

No need for apologies.
The burial of Gertrude appears on the ‘Family Search’ site and from the information given I am almost certain she was buried at St Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. I think if you looked at the burial records of that church they would not show her date of death (just as many baptism records don’t show the date of birth)… again you would need a certificate to be sure of the death date. But it is almost certainly only a few days at most before the burial date?
Please let me know if I can help further.

Dave (May 28th 2016)


Bostock

Hello Dave,
What a great site. I find it one of the most interesting reads I have discovered yet. How you amount so much information baffles me. I congratulate you.

Now to my question. My roots belong to the Bostock family. In your article “about the author” you mention “Chaucer Infants’ school” by any chance is that in Chaucer Street? I have a Bostock (grandfather or great grandfather I believe) at 49 Chaucer Street but cannot find any other information regarding who lived there. I loved the story about “Jonathan Trot Bostock” I wonder if he was one of my Bostocks.

Stay well and thank you for your wonderful work.
Brian. (June 1st 2016)


In reply to Brian Bostock.

Brian,

Thanks for the encouraging remarks about the site.

I would be happy to try to help you … if you could give me a bit more information about your ‘Bostock roots’ at 49 Chaucer Street. Who is the grandfather/great grandfather? What time period are you researching?

Chaucer Infants school was indeed in Chaucer Street … but was knocked down to be replaced by housing. There is still a school retaining that name in Ilkeston, now in Cranmer Street… just a few hundred metres away from the original one.

Dave (June 1st 2016)


Hello Dave,

Thank you for your positive reply.

This is what I have;
Birth of my father George Edward Bostock 22 Feb 1921 residing at 49 Chaucer Street, Ilkeston.
Father (my grandfather) W. E. Bostock and mother (my grandmother) Maud Rebecca Bostock (Isaac)
I also have a copy of my father and mother’s wed cert (1945) with W. E. now living at 17 Park Drive, Ilkeston.
So these are 100% correct.
Now the problem is after searching I cannot find any information on W. E.’s relatives that are 100%.
There are lots of Bostocks in that area but I can’t confirm a direct connection. I tried looking for people at Chaucer Street but as yet I am blank.
So at this moment I am in a rut at which relatives are mine and W. E. (Sons, daughters, mother, father) Anything that can get me moving would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Brian. (June 2nd 2016)

In reply to Brian Bostock.


Brian,

I know what you mean about the Bostocks in Ilkeston !!

I have found George Edward living at 17 Park Drive, Ilkeston in 1939.
With him is father William Edward, a factory stoker, and his wife Maud Rebecca.
Looking at this source, William Edward was born on Dec 23rd 1882 and Maud Rebecca on Oct 24 1889.

There was only one William Edward Bostock whose birth was registered in Ilkeston in 1882 (as well as one William Henry Bostock who was the illegitimate son of Sarah Ann Bostock of Brussels Terrace, so we will discount him)
It should be fairly straightforward to get the birth certificate of this William Edward and see who his parents were, etc
However that of course costs money !!

Looking on the Ilkeston census of 1891 for William Edward Bostock gives only one possible result … a William Bostock living in Slade Street, aged 8, the son of widower William Bostock, a coalminer (I shouldn’t worry too much about the fact that the lad is not referred to as ‘William Edward’ .. it was common for some families to omit second given names).
Tracing the widower William back, we can find that his wife was Maria (nee Cook) who died in 1888. The family are on the 1881 census and they married at Cotmanhay in 1872.
It is only possible that this son is the W.E.Bostock you are looking for however.

I know that some researchers enjoy their own investigating so I won’t delve too deeply for you, but I am only too ready to share what I know with you, if you find more difficulty.
One thing puzzles me however … I have found William and Maud Bostock on the 1911 census, living at 158 Station Rd, Ilkeston, he being a stoker. The census says that they had been married one year. I believe that shortly after this they had a son, Charles William Hill Bostock, born on Jan 12th 1912. However I can’t find their marriage on any site … I have found a marriage of Maud Rebecca Isaac to Claudius Hill in 1908 and he is living in Nottingham on the 1911 census without his wife. ??

Dave (June 2nd 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Hello Dave,

Thank you for the information.
In truth I was leaning towards the Maria Cook way too but have no 100% guarantee they are connected.
As for obtaining the Birth cert for William, I would normally agree however it’s a little more complicated as I live in Thailand. I will try to get this but have no idea how long it will take or if I can do it.
Regarding your comment about digging too far, Be my guest, as you seem more capable. However I don’t want to burden you too much so I will do what I can.

As for Maud and Claudius, food for thought there. Some hanky panky going on? I have the birth cert for George Edward and it states W E was a boiler stoker at Chaucer Street in 1921 so this leads me to think it is the right path.

I shall continue with this intriguing chapter.
So again thank you so much and please dig at your own conveyance if you so wish.

I can’t wait to see if you have any more articles like your “Ilkeston History” one.

Regards,
Brian. (June 3rd 2016)

Hi Dave,
I was wondering, do you know of any street maps from around 1800 to 1900 of the Ilkeston or Derbyshire area?
It would be great to be able to plot the movements of my ancestors.

Thanks,
Brian. (June 7th 2016)

In reply to Brian Bostock.

Brian,

Ilkeston street maps of this period are not plentiful.
In 1866, shortly after the formation of the Local Board, that same body commissioned civil engineer Charles Sherwood Newman to produce a street map of Ilkeston for its reference … which he did. It is a splendid piece of work (in my opinion) and a copy is held at the Ilkeston Reference Library. The map is in several sections and the whole is kept in a box, for reference only. This is the first detailed street map of the town in this period and although not clear in some places, does give a lot of detail.

The next map to be drawn up was the OS map published in 1881 (surveyed in 1879/1880) … also in several parts, kept in the same library and showing great detail of the town. It is found in several scales. Since that time useful maps are more frequent and there is certainly one of the town for 1900/1901.

Of course you would need to visit the Reference Library which is impossible for you.?? Maybe you have a friend/associate who could do the leg work for you and perhaps take some copies? I leave that up to you. This may also offer a solution to you getting a copy of the birth certificate from the GRO?

Looking at your Bostock line … if your William Edward is a son of William and Maria (nee Cook), I believe William senior was the son of engineer Thomas (alias One-armed Tom) and Eliza (nee Calladine). Thomas married under the name of Thomas Brown, being the illegitimate son of Elizabeth who married James Bostock in the year following her son’s birth.

Dave (June 7th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Dave,

Thank you once again.
You are a wealth of information.
I will look into one-armed Tom.
It truly is amazing what one finds when delving into the past.
Guess that’s what makes it interesting. It also gives us a glimpse of how our ancestors lived and what they got up to. Wonder how Tom lost his arm, interesting.

Keep well.
Brian. (June 8th 2016)


Hibbert

I am so pleased I found this site. Wish I had found it sooner, I have a Bostock/Hibbert in my Family.

I have been trying to find a Robert Hibbert born abt 1853 Birth Certificate, born in Ilkeston, seems to be he was an Illegitimate child of Mary Hibbert. and that’s where it stops! cant find any thing. Robert Hibbert he had a daughter Elizabeth Hibbert born 1889 who married a Thomas Bostock
Elizabeth was my grandfathers Alfred Hibbert sister. Alfred Immigrated to SA in 1921 with Rev Robert Gaskill as Alfred married to Ethel Gaskill. all seem to come from Ilkeston.
I have just immigrated to the UK from SA. Have been doing the family research for a couple of years but getting no where. On the Marriage cert I see Robert dad was William.(which I have just found on your site! Not sure if he was a William Gray? as my father told us that our surname was Hibbert Gray, then changed back to Hibbert, and that Robert was an illegitimate child of one of the royal fam. ( I have some real look a likes in Photos). Would you be able to give me any more information on these familys, I would be grateful. I def want to take a trip to Ilkeston and see where my Family come from. I have been to Bolton as I thought they were all born there, as my grandfather Alfred was. Thank you for a interesting site.

kind regards Yolande (June 11th 2016)


In reply to Yolande (Hibbert) Vosloo.

Yolande,

It seems that the information in your comment contains most of the answers to your questions.

It would appear to me that Robert Hibbert was the illegitimate son of Mary Hibbert of West Hallam (a village geographically adjacent to Ilkeston). His birth was registered at Derby in 1852 and he was baptised at St Werburgh’s Church in that city in the same year.
In July 1856, his mother then married William Gray (born in Radford, Nottingham but at that time lodging in Ilkeston and working at the ironworks at Stanton, again close to Ilkeston) The family then lived at what is now called the Hallam Fields area of Ilkeston …. this is close to the ironworks.
Robert appears on the 1861 Ilkeston census as Robert Gray and as miner Robert Gray on the 1871 census.
In Dec 1874 he married Mary Jane Dalley at St Mary’s Church, the record showing his name as Robert Hibbert (he made his mark). From that time on he seems to appear as Robert Hibbert until he died at Bolton in 1904 (?)

Dave (June 12th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Thank you for coming back to me, and confirming the info that I have.
Would Roberts real fathers name be on the Birth Certificate? I am interested to find out who his father was, also which is the best site to find such information?
Thank you once again (June 13th 2016)

In reply to Yolande (Hibbert) Vosloo.

Yolande,

There is no guarantee that the father’s name would appear on the birth certificate … in fact is more likely that it would not appear.
From 1837 to 1875, at the registration of the child’s birth, if the mother informed the registrar who the father was, then the registrar could record him as the father.
However all that changed in 1875 when the reputed father had to consent to his name being recorded and was also present when the birth was registered .. but as Robert was born in 1852 this does not apply, so you may be lucky.

If you wish to pursue this, there is no web site to find the information ..the best thing to do is send for the birth certificate, using the General Register Office (GRO) website .. just type in ‘GRO’ and look for the Certificate Ordering service … it costs about 9.25GBP (inc postage I believe)

If you want any further help about this or the Hibbert/Bostock family, do please ask.

Dave (June 13th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Thank you so much for your help and being so helpful, I will Keep you updated. (June 13th 2016)


Hollingworth

Hi Dave,
I am member of the Hollingworth family of Dale Abbey. My line has been closely connected to the Daykin family for a number of centuries in villages such as Spondon, West Hallam etc. My family originally came from Cheshire, where they are related to the parent branch of the Bostocks of all people. I am a keen historian and have much of my family’s history back to 1145. A considerable amount of research has been gathered for this part of Derbyshire as well. Happy to share any of our family records with you.
Kind regards
Simon Hollingworth (ex Dale Abbey, Breadsall, West Hallam, Spondon, Ockbrook, Stapleford, ex Hollingworth, Co Cheshire.) (August 17th 2016)


Simon,
Thank you for the contact and the offer to share your research.
I would certainly welcome any contributions which might add to the site and help others in their own research.
As you will have noted from the name and the home page,’Old Ilkeston’ tries to concentrate on Ilkeston events/people/places related to the nineteenth century … although it is impossible not to ‘stray’ beyond those parameters.

It seems that you must have a great wealth of information … if you wish to send any of it through to me, it might be best to start with that time-frame in mind (if possible) and to concentrate on the area around Ilkeston (Dale Abbey/West Hallam/Kirk Hallam/Stapleford/ etc) though I don’t want to restrict you too much.
It would be best to send any material off-line to the site email address … dave.johnson@oldilkeston.co.uk
Again, I much appreciate your offer.
Dave (August 17th 2016)


Dave,
my Daykin connections include the following:
William Hollingworth, Gent, a draper of Nottingham, originally from West Hallam who married Bridget Daykin in 1640.
Mary Hollingworth of Spondon, who married, George Daykin, Gent the son of Richard Dakin Circa 1640s
Thomas Hollingworth of Alton Hill estate at Ashover who was a supposed kinsman to George Daykin, Gent of Stubbing Edge circa 1650
All three of these Hollingworth lines originally came out of West Hallam, and 100 years earlier from Stapleford, and prior to 1550, Hollingworth Hall at Hollingworth in Cheshire.

Hopefully this is of interest to you.
Cheers
Simon Hollingworth (August 31st 2016)


Harrison

To all Harrisons who may be reading this site ….

I have received an interesting enquiry from Polly Lynn in the USA.
I have posted it at the Harrison families section of the ‘Comments Summary‘ and also at the ‘Help, I need somebody‘ Section.

Dave (September 24th 2016)


Machin

Hi Dave,
I’m doing some local history research in the area where I live, which is Belper, I am trying to find information relating to a Thomas Machin, who was deaf and dumb or mute, you have some information about him, where he was a photographer in Ilkeston, and you have stated that he described himself as a “mute photographic artist”, where did you get this information from, was it a newspaper advert and have you got any more information regarding Thomas Machin. Your description of him would suggest that he ended up at Belper doing photography etc but I cannot find any information about him doing that, but it is true that he did live in Belper in fact he died in Belper and I have got a story from the local paper about him, because he was a well known local character. Any help would be much appreciated.
Jon (September 25th 2016)


Jon,
I can’t add a great deal to Thomas Machin other than what I put on the site.
He did advertise in the Ilkeston press in 1858 .. for example, in the Ilkeston Pioneer, Apr 1858 (a copy held at Ilkeston Reference Library) he advertises as ‘a mute photographic artist’ at Mr Mellor’s Garden in the Market Place, Ilkeston, open 9am till Dusk. (That would be John Mellor the butcher)
On both the 1861 and 1871 census he is an artist, and an annuitant in 1881…. ‘deaf and dumb’ from birth.
He seems to have made only a fleeting appearance in Ilkeston.
I would be very interested in the story you have about him.
Dave (September 26th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

Hi Dave, thank you for the newspaper advert, I have found him on the 1861 and 1881/1891 but not the 1871 census can you send me a copy of that please, I will send you the newspaper article that I have, it would add to the story that you have about him on your site. Do you know of any photographs that were done by him of buildings/street scenes, that have turned up, that could perhaps be in my area, I would imagine that he took pictures or painted everything around him, and with him living at the Belper Pottery, and possibly working for them as their Artist at one stage, I was hoping to one day find some interesting pictures of the Pottery and the surrounding area, as yet there are no known pictures of the Pottery, there could be unidentified pictures that are somewhere, but I have looking but so far nothing.
Jon (September 26th 2016)


Flower Pot Inn

When did the flower pot pub close?
Thanks for helping me with local history advice and dates
Gary Moss (October 20th 2016)


In reply to Gary Moss.
Gary,

I am not aware of the precise date of its closure.
It stood not far from where I lived in Ilkeston and I recall a few occasions when I visited it in the late 1960’s and early 70’s.
It closed and was demolished in the 1990’s … another sacrifice to the Chalons Way ?, although not on the direct route (there is a car park there now)… but the exact year I don’t know.
Perhaps someone else could help?

Dave (October 21st 2016)


Harrison

For Linda Mott (and other Harrison researchers) … (Oct 22nd 2016)

I have been examining the will of Joseph Harrison of Ilkeston, who died on June 15th 1832.
His wife was Hannah (though she may have been his second wife and so not the mother of Joseph’s children) — he had sons Joseph, John, Christopher and daughter Mary all mentioned in the will.
I believe that Christopher was ‘Kester’ Harrison, hosier of Derby Road who is mentioned on the site.
Son John was a hosier living at Derby … I think he is at Lodge Lane in 1841
Son Joseph was a framework knitter living at Horsley at the time of Joseph’s death … this could be the one married to Sarah Foster in 1805, the couple who had a daughter Sarah (married to William Thompson).

P.S. I have also updated and ‘corrected’ some information of the Carrier family which might conflict with detail I gave you earlier.
(Apologies that I no longer have your email address and so could not contact you directly)
Dave (October 22nd 2016)


Straw

I am researching my friend’s family tree for them and am looking for information on George Dennis Straw who was born in 1916 in Basford.
He married a Joan Margaret Bantock in 1939 in Ilkeston and died 21st July 1969.
I am wondering whether any of your readers have any information on them in particular if they are buried locally or if anyone knows who Joan’s family were.
Thank you, Sonia Limm (October 31st 2016)


Dawson

Hi loved the info about the Dawson’s but would like to trouble you about finding out more about them as My grandmother was also a Dawson. Her name was Hannah and was the daughter of Peter Pearson Dawson, who was the brother of the William Dawson Jnr in this article and I would so much like to find out more about William senior as I believe he was from a boat family as the earliest I can find someone to match is William Dawson age 20 in Barlaston as a boat builder in 1841 and every subsequent detail matches your article. So any help would be appreciated. I was aware but have never traced a member of the family who actually created the Dawson family tree and had over 800 living relative but this was over 10 years ago or such.
Peter Watson (November 9th 2016)


Henshaw

In the grand tour a JAMES SMITH is reported to have died as a result of a brawl in 1841. JAMES was my 3 x great grandfather and is buried in the church yard. One of his daughters, ALICE, married ELIJAH HENSHAW.
The wife of JAMES was ELIZABETH RICE but I cannot find her birth or who her father was.
I hope you can help with this gap in my family history.
ELIJAH and ALICE had 3 sons WILLIAM after ELIJAH’s father, JAMES after ALICE’s father and
RICHARD. I am the 4th RICHARD in a direct line to this RICHARD.
Richard Henshaw (November 28th 2016)


In reply to Richard Henshaw.

Most of the information I am including into this email you probably already know. Hopefully it will also set the identity of Elizabeth Rice into some context, and hopefully others might chip in.

James Smith, cordwainer, married Elizabeth Rice at St Mary’s in Nov 1812.
James died in 1841, aged 49. At that time they were living in Chapel Street.
Elizabeth continued to live in the same street as a widow for the rest of her life, and died on December 16th 1872, aged 80.
Although registered death ages at this time are not to be relied upon to be totally accurate, other evidence … especially her ages recorded on the censuses … all point to her being born about 1792.

Now the Rices and the ‘cordwaining’ Smiths both had a long and abiding relationship with Chapel Street … as indeed did Elijah Henshaw (who lived there with his wife Alice) and who died there in 1882. In fact Chapel St was sometime referred to as ‘Rices Lane’ because there were so many of that clan born or living there in the 1850’s and 1860’s. This would suggest that Elizabeth was one of them.

If you look at the 1841 Census you will see that of these Chapel Street Rices the oldest ones were Richard and Martha (nee Chadwick). They married on Oct 17th 1791. Now I think I can identify seven of their children from the baptisms at St Mary’s Church … the first one being Joseph Chadwick Rice in April 1794. There is no baptised daughter Elizabeth however but you might note a gap between the date of their marriage and the baptism of this ‘first’ child.

Richard Rice died on Oct 4th 1852, aged 83 and fortunately left quite an extensive will, dated January 7th 1847 … in it he mentions his wife Martha (who was to die on Dec 31st 1857, aged 89), sons Joseph, Samuel, James, Richard (all of whom were baptised at St Marys) and John (whose baptism I haven’t found), daughter Sarah (who is described as the wife of William Potter), daughter Martha (described as the wife of John Beardsley) and finally daughter ‘Elizabeth Smith, widow’.

Looking for an Elizabeth Rice who married a ‘Smith’, whose husband died before 1847, and who was still alive as a widow in 1847, I can only find one …the one you are asking about…. who would fit neatly into the gap between the marriage date and the baptism dates.

Other circumstantial evidence concerns the proximity of the Smiths and Rices on the census? (November 28th 2016)


Harrison

Would you please ask Linda Mott to contact me re the Harrison conundrum.
After 15 years of research I believe I have solved the riddle of Joseph Harrisons birth and his Ancestry
David Harrison (December 3rd 2016)


In reply to David Harrison.

David,
Unfortunately I don’t have Linda’s email address.
I tried to contact her via this site in October (see Harrison familes) but so far without success.
As you can see I have posted your request on the site and hopefully Linda will see it at some point.
I will also post in in ‘Help, I need somebody’.

Dave (December 5th 2016)


In reply to Dave.

David
Thanks for trying. Are there any Harrison Researchers who might be interested in my research.
I am a GGGrandson of Joseph Harrison by way of his son John, his grandson William, and his great grandson William.

regards

David Harrison (December 6th 2016)


In reply to David Harrison.

David,

I will post your question on the site .. there doesn’t seem to be a shortage of Harrison researchers.
As you may have noted there are a lot of mysterious Harrisons floating around this site, mentioned by Adeline Wells. Perhaps if we all put our heads together they might make more sense.
If you would like to pass on more information about your line I could find a space for it somewhere I am sure !!
I am always on the lookout for help with the Ilkeston Harrisons.

Dave (December 6th 2016)


Beardsley

I have a Beardsley family who don’t seem to be in your census list for 1841 and 1851. Does your website cover Ockbrook?
Isaac Beardsley was born in Kirk Hallam around 1792 and married Mary Dowman in Ockbrook in 1823. He was a frame smith for most of his life, then became a beer retailer. They lived in Ockbrook and had children Thomas, Ann, Harriet, John, Elizabeth, Caroline, Edward up to1841, then Hannah and Jane. I am trying to find Isaac’s parents from Kirk Hallam. Isaac died in Ockbrook in 1864. I am overseas so haven’t been able to visit these places yet and others have told me that some of the parish baptism records are not yet on line.
Thanks
Chris (December 26th 2016)


In reply to Chris Wood.

Chris,

The site tries to concentrate upon Ilkeston, though we have wandered to other neighbouring places occasionally. Ockbrook doesn’t often feature.
I am sure you realise that Isaac Beardsley and his family were living at Ockbrook on the 1841,1851 and 1861 censuses.
As you point out, he appears to have been born at Kirk Hallam about 1792.
In the baptisms records of Kirk Hallam Church there is no entry for Isaac at any time, though there are quite a few Beardsley family records for around the second half on the eighteenth century and into the next century.
Had he been baptised it may have occurred in a nearby village/town … Mapperley, West Hallam, Stanton by Dale, Shipley/Heanor ?

I will post your query on the site to see if anyone else has any ideas.

Dave (December 26th 2016)