Scattergoods and Simpsons
Thank you for the encouraging remarks. And I am happy to see that the site is proving useful to someone.
I well understand your frustration with the Scattergood clan … there are so many strands and research is not helped by the fact that several members had an alias surname.
I believe that your Thomas Scattergood died in Ilkeston and was buried at St Mary’s Church on Feb 3rd 1837, aged 56. By that time his first wife Mary had died in 1827 and he had married Fanny (formerly Thompson, nee Chambers) in 1829 …. she was also on her second spouse, and after the death of Thomas she married widower James Henshaw in 1840.
Thomas and Mary had at least 11 children and then he had another three with Fanny.
Thomas’s death age (which of course may not be accurate) suggests a birth around 1780/1781.
The picture is complicated by the fact that there were also several Scattergood families living in villages/towns adjacent to Ilkeston .. like Cossall, Trowell and Stapleford in Nottinghamshire, and West Hallam, Mapperley, Stanley and Stanton by Dale in Derbyshire …. and they often moved into and out of Ilkeston.
The records of Stanley (St Andrew’s Church) show a baptism of Thomas Scattergood, in October 1780, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton).
If there is a particular problem or a dead end that is puzzling you (or several!) please feel free to share it. If we put our heads together maybe we can make progress? Or maybe someone else will chip in?
Dave (July 28th 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Thank you so much for your reply!! I was very excited, but also a bit confused after reading your response to the mysteries of the Scattergood clan. It would seem that I have quite possibly been barking up the wrong Scattergood family tree! Your information about Thomas Scattergood, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton) makes much more sense than the “hint” that was sent to me by the ancestry.co.uk website. They had suggested that Thomas was born in Fillongley, Warwickshire in 1787 and was the son of Thomas & Elizabeth (nee Wright) Scattergood of Fillongley. Obviously I now need to make corrections.
I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone, if there were 11 children. I thought perhaps I was looking up the wrong tree again. But then I also found the 3 children Thomas had with Fanny that you mentioned. However, after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. At the time of Thomas’ death in 1837 Samuel would have only been 10 years old. I located some of his siblings through the 1841 census on this site living as lodgers with other families, but nothing of Samuel. I do finally locate him in the marriages section of this site to Gertrude on Oct 24, 1849. So it would seem all is good there.
There is one puzzling thing… I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley. However, the1780 record is showing the given name as *Nces. Obviously a transcription error and the record has been indexed so I’m unable to look for myself. Other than that, my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born. And one other elusive relative from Staffordshire which is proving to be a royal pain in more ways than one.
Dave, I am so thankful to you for the information you have given me. It has been very trying at times for me as I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages. Who knows, maybe one day a trip would be in order, then it might all make more sense!
Many thanks again ~ Brenda (July 30th 2015)
In reply to Brenda Sweeney.
Thanks for the reply which gives us something to work on.
I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone …. Like you I have found records for 10 children. However there is an Eliza Scattergood, born in Ilkeston, who married Samuel Hutchinson in Nov 1831 at St Mary’s Church in Ilkeston. The Hutchinsons later lived in Club Row (where Fanny, the widow of Thomas Scattergood, was also living). The first child of Eliza and Samuel Hutchinson was Isaiah, born in 1832 but baptised in December 1834 at the Wesleyan Chapel when the parents of Eliza were recorded as Thomas and Mary Scattergood.The family later moved into Chapel St where Eliza died on June 26th 1871, aged 62. This would put her birth year about 1809/1810 which would fit into the family tree of Thomas and Mary (nee Gorse)? I can find no other ‘Thomas and Mary Scattergood’ in Ilkeston at this time, as yet.
after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. … me too !! I can’t find him on the 1841 or 51 census, nor Gertrude on the 1851 census. You would think that someone with the name Gertrude Scattergood might be relatively easy to find on the census, but then you have to remember the vagaries of the enumerators and or/transcribers. As Samuel is often described as a boatman or waterman, then this occupation could have taken him to many ‘foreign’ areas in England. I note that the Simpson family of Gertrude also left Ilkeston in 1851 and that her father Willoughby Simpson married his second wife Emma Spittle of Birmingham in Aston, Warwickshire in July 1851 (His first wife Harriet (nee Hardy) died on Feb 19 1851 at Ilkeston). So maybe they were all together somewhere (in Warwickshire? … a Warwickshire connection??) Shortly after 1851 they are all back in Ilkeston however.
I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley … Brenda there is an excellent web site on Stanley compiled by Alan Bloor …. if you type in ‘Stanley One-Place Study’ you should find it, where, amongst other details, it lists all the parish records, including those of Thomas and Ruth.
my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born …. they were married at Spondon Parish Church on Nov 20th 1765 when they were both recorded as living at Stanley (a few miles away)
I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages … I can see that you might be very confused and uncertain abou all these small places. If you find a Google map of Ilkeston you will see it surrounded by villages/towns (most of which were very small in the nineteenth century) where there were ‘branches’ of Scattergoods.
With Ilkeston at the centre, Cossall is at 2 o’clock, Trowell is at 4 o’clock, Stapleford is at 5 o’clock (all in Nottinghamshire), Stanton by Dale is at 6 o’clock, Dale Abbey is at 8 o’clock, Stanley and West Hallam roughly at 9 o’clock, Mapperley at 10 o’clock (all in Derbyshire).
As I have pointed out, several Scattergoods from these places made their way into Ilkeston at one time or another. For example Joseph Scattergood was born in Stanton by Dale, son of Richard whose family kept the Stanhope Arms in that village for many years, though Joseph spent most of his life in Ilkeston.
Dave (August 1st 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Once again, thank you for your reply and the valuable information. I did visit Alan Bloor’s web site as you suggested and found quite a bit of information re: Thomas Scattergood and Ruth Barton. I found that Ruth’s parents were Stephen and Hannah Barton. With the information regarding Thomas and Ruth’s marriage at Spondon Parish Church on 20 Nov 1765, I found that their marriage was witnessed by Luke Scattergood and G. Barton. (I’m guessing maybe Ruth’s brother Gregory?) As to Luke, maybe a brother to Thomas? The record shows Thomas’ burial date as 12 Dec 1789, however no birth date or birth place is recorded. I tried a search on Ancestry also but no results showing a Thomas Scattergood in Stanley. I found a Luke Scattergood baptized on 27 Jan 1752 in Kirk Hallam, Derbyshire, with parents Samuel and Sarah Scattergood so I tried searching Thomas in the same location with the same parents but came up empty.
Back to Ruth’s parents, Stephen and Hannah Barton, I found a marriage recorded on 22 Jan 1729 for Stephen Barton of West Hallam, & Hannah Hunt, of Weston Underwood in the Derbyshire: Registers of Marriages, 1538-1812. Again, as I’m unfamiliar with all these little towns, I’m not too sure if this would be a possibility of being the correct parents for Ruth. West Hallam was a town name you mentioned as being close to Ilkeston and Stanley, so I am thinking (hoping) I might have the right people here. Then further to this finding, with the hopes that I have the correct Stephen Barton, I then found a baptismal certificate for Stephen Barton on 30 Dec 1702, in West Hallam showing parents John and Anne Barton.
I have added Eliza Scattergood Hutchinson into Thomas and Mary’s family also. Thank you for that info, I can find no record through Ancestry for Eliza, but on the Old Ilkeston site I did see the record. Dave, you have really helped me to fill in a lot of the “blanks” and I am very appreciative. If you think I may have any incorrect information in the above mentioned today, please let me know your thoughts?
Brenda (August 2nd 2015)
In reply to Brenda Sweeney.
To me you appear to be on the right path.
Both West Hallam and Kirk Hallam are possible Scattergood places and very close to Stanley and Ilkeston.
The marriage of Stephen Barton and Hannah Hunt which you mention was at Derby St Alkmund’s Church.
Press on !! And do please add any other problems or seek more advice if the need arises.
Dave (August 3rd 2015)
I hope I’m not imposing too much, but I was wondering if you might be able to help with another question. I believe at this moment I have gone as far as I can on my Scattergood relatives, much further with your assistance than I might have gone otherwise, for which I am very thankful. However, I have now hit several brick walls so have decided to switch to the Simpsons of Ilkeston. (Gertrude Simpson having married Samuel Scattergood, my 2nd great-grandparents)
I’m not sure if you can help to clarify something for me, but I felt it wouldn’t hurt to ask as you helped me immensely with the Scattergoods. It would appear that William Willoughby Simpson, born abt 1771 and Willoughby Simpson born abt 1804 both married women with the surname of Hardy. The elder Willoughby married Mary Hardy, (born abt 1781), in 1801. The younger Willoughby married Harriet Hardy, (born abt 1804), in 1826. On the Old Ilkeston site, the younger Willoughby is shown as being “of Willoughby and Mary (Hardy) mar 1801”,their son, however his wife Harriet Hardy doesn’t show her parent’s names. I’m wondering if you might be able to shed any light on this information. From the census for 1841 I did see that Harriet had an illegal daughter, Emmeler (aka Emily), prior to her marriage to Willoughby. I am trying to figure out if Harriet might have been related to Mary in some way prior to the marriages?
I thank you once again for any thoughts you might have on this.
Brenda (August 10th 2015)
In reply to Brenda Sweeney.
One purpose of this site is to help researchers with problems they might have encountered and/or to suggest answers to questions that may have remained unresolved. If I cannot help then there may be others who might wish to join in. I hope so.
Anyhow, I would never consider it an imposition if someone raised an issue via this site and asked for guidance.
And so, on to the Simpsons!!
Willoughby Simpson married Mary Hardy at St Giles Church in Sandiacre, Derbyshire on July 21st 1801 when the groom was described as living in Ilkeston and Mary in Sandiacre. The latter place is just a few miles from Ilkeston and between the two is Stanton by Dale.
On the 1841 census Mary is described as being born in Derbyshire and unfortunately she died before the 1851 census .. on Feb 8th 1849 when her reported age was 68, suggesting a birth year around 1780.
Willoughby junior and Harriet Hardy were married at St Mary Magdalene Church in Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire on Mar 27th 1826.
Prior to that Harriet gave birth to her illegitimate daughter Emily who was baptised at the same church on Sep 2nd 1822 .. when her parents were given as Harriet Hardy and Richard Blackburn of Norton, Lincolnshire (a few miles to the north-east of Newark, (just across the Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire border).
On the 1841 census Harriet is described as ‘not born in Derbyshire’ and she too died at Ilkeston just before the 1851 census … on Feb 19th 1851, aged 57 (thus a birth year around 1794).
Her daughter Emily married Jonathan Eyre in 1845 and eventually left Ilkeston to settle in Nottingham where she died in 1894 (Jonathan died there in 1890).
The places of marriage and the birth of Emily would lead me to make some suppositions … but at the moment I can offer no other pieces of detail which might help. I wouldn’t assume that the same surname could not be a coincidence however.
Dave (August 13th 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Once again, thank you very much for your assistance. As I stated before, you have helped tremendously with the “filling in of the gaps” for me. I am so happy to have discovered this site and all it has to offer. I hope I am wrong in my assumption, but I believe my ancestors, the Scattergoods and Simpsons of Ilkeston, lived a hard life back in the 1800’s. It seems they were hard workers, at least I hope that is the case, but that they worked long hours for a pittance. I have yet to read all there is on this site and I am very interested in learning more about Ilkeston. As far as learning anything more of my relatives, sadly, I believe my search may be coming to an end. I am finding it difficult to locate information prior to 1837 with the few other resources I’m aware of (i.e. ancestry.co.uk and freebmd.org.uk), I started this search of ancestors for my Aunt who is 80 years old and knew nothing of her Mother’s side of the family. She is thrilled with all of what I have passed on to her, most coming from this site. So from her and myself, thanks again Dave!
Brenda (August 14th 2015)
Knighton and Shorthose
It was great to find this website, not only for the 1841 Census but also for the 1851 Census.
However via Ancestry.co.uk, I had found my Shorthose ancestors quite easily on their Census (originals), but I am wondering just how and where you have come across the parentage of Catherine Shorthose (nee Knighton) who married my direct ancestor John Shorthose, which you mention in this website (see below)?:-
Shorthose Catherine w 58 Cotmanhay (nee Knighton mar 1824/ of George and Mary (Siverns) mar 1781)
Both for 1841 & 1851 you give the exact same information, but this of course could be the way the computer has recorded it automatically perhaps?
I have tried to find a marriage for George Knighton & Mary Siverns in 1781, but I can only find one for George Knighton and Mary Sissons – I am therefore wondering could Siverns have been written/transcribed by mistake and in reality it should be Sissons, or indeed vice versa?? I know that there were many Sissons in Ilkeston.
NAME: George Knighton
SPOUSE: Mary Sissons
MARRIAGE: 17 Jul 1781 – Ilkestone, Derbyshire, England
RESIDENCE: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Your help and any comments would be much appreciated as I would love to get to grips with this particular family line.
Thanks in advance
Christina (September 5th 2015)
In reply to Christina Sharpe (Nee Shorthose).
You ask about Catherine Shorthose …
‘I am wondering just how and where you have come across the parentage of Catherine Shorthose (nee Knighton) who married my direct ancestor John Shorthose, which you mention in this website‘
Catherine Shorthose was born Catherine Knighton and she appears on the 1841/51/61 censuses. In 1851 she is recorded as aged 58 and in 1861 as 68. If you look at her death registration in June 1861, just after the census was taken, she is recorded as aged 66 and at her burial at Christ Church Cotmanhay she is listed as aged 67. This of course would place her birth around 1793-1795 in Ilkeston.
This links to the baptism at St Mary’s Church, Ilkeston, of ‘Kitty Nighton’ daughter of George and Mary on Aug 4th 1793.
George and Mary had already had a daughter Catherine born in 1789 but she had died just over a year later. In all, I can find at least ten children born to the couple, the first one being Samuel, baptised in November 1781.
Looking for a marriage of George and Mary in the original register of St Mary’s you can find .. on Jul 17th 1781 .. the marriage of George Knighton, coalminer, to what looks like Mary Siverns, both of Ilkeston.
There are very few other ‘Siverns’ recorded in the Ilkeston .. though the name may be written as Sivern, or Severn or Severns or Seavern or Severne. … and there are many Severns in Ilkeston.
As you say there are also many ‘Sissons’ in Ilkeston … I see that the marriage on FamilySearch is recorded as ‘Mary Sissons’, and also on Findmypast (which uses FamilySearch).
I suppose that ‘Sissons’ can look like ‘Siverns’ and vice-versa, though at the moment I am inclined to the latter name.
Like several other Ilkeston families, the Knightons appear a close-knit clan… if you look on the census you will find several of the children of George and Mary living in very close proximity, all in Cotmanhay or that area.
Catherine Shorthose died on June 14th 1861 and the informant at her death was ‘Betty Clay’. Now assuming that Betty is living in Ilkeston and is on the 1861 census, there is one candidate living in Cotmanhay, (widow of John Clay), who is also a member of the Knighton clan. There is another possible candidate … Elizabeth Clay, living in Stanton Road, who I believe was born Elizabeth Boam, married Samuel Knighton (the brother of Catherine) in 1805, and when widowed, then married Thomas Clay, in 1837. (By 1861 she was a widow once more).
Has any of this helped? … or helped to confuse you even more?!
Dave (September 7th 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Many thanks indeed for the speedy clarification – but you have given me lots of avenues to pursue so all is not lost!!.
I think I must be related to half the population of Cotmanhay!! We do have Clays and Boams already on our tree, and it is getting very incestuous with the Knightons in there as well.
I too had worked out that my Catherine Knighton/Shorthose was probably Kitty, owing to another Catherine having died previously. I certainly did not know that she was one of 10 children, as I only had 4 others (Mary, Catherine, John & Joseph) , so it would be good to have those other names, one of which you tell me is Samuel. If you have the other names I would love to know who they are.
I was VERY interested to see that the informant at the death of Catherine was a Betty Clay (where did you find this snippet?). We do have Clays in our tree. I have indeed a John Clay with a question mark down for a wife called Elizabeth – so perhaps this is Betty?? – Can you confirm that this Betty is a Knighton please as that is how I understand your wording? However the other version of Elizabeth BOAM marrying Samuel Knighton and then later Thomas Clay is also a very possible candidate – I will delve into those too.
Strangely enough, John Shorthose’s mother (ie Catherine Knighton’s mum in law) – Elizabeth Shorthose (nee Nash) was widowed very young and it would seem she later also married a Thomas Clay of Heanor in 1808!
With regards to the marriage of George Knighton & Mary Siverns/Sissons: funnily enough today a very kind person (who I had contacted via Ancestry.co,uk) went to the Records office and looked up the marriage for George Knighton and Mary “Sissons” and confirmed to me that in their minds, it was definitely Sissons, but written so badly that it could easily be mis-interpreted as Siverns. So now I am still not sure which to believe as you seem to favour Siverns!!. I wonder if it would be possible to see an actual copy of the original record so that I could decide for myself?
So YES your message has certainly helped and given me more avenues to pursue. If you could kindly clarify some of my above queries that would be wonderful. This is a wonderful website and you are doing a sterling job! Thank you.
Christina (September 10th 2015)
In reply to Christina Sharpe (Nee Shorthose).
Only half the population of Cotmanhay!?! Let’s see if we can add to that !!
You ask about the children of George and Mary …
If you have the other names I would love to know who they are.
As first child I have Samuel, baptised at St Laurance Church in Heanor (Nov 1781). At one time he was a victualler and a beer seller and I believe he died in Nov 1836, aged 55.
Then Elizabeth, born and died in 1783.
Then two Marys … first one bap 1785-d 1786, second one bap 1787 – d 1790
Polly (another Mary?) bap 1791
George bap 1796
And on to the Clays?
You ask ‘Can you confirm that this Betty is a Knighton please as that is how I understand your wording?’
On the 1861 census there is a Betty Clay (2436-012-83) at Cotmanhay, aged 64, and with her is her grand-daughter Marina Clay, aged 10.
I believe that Betty was born Elizabeth Knighton in 1797, daughter of John and Hannah (nee Lacey). She married John Clay alias John Clay Flint in Oct 1824.
Marina Clay alias Marina Clay Flint or Marina Flint Clay is the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann Clay or Clay Flint.
(In May 1854 Mary Ann married Edward Wright. And then in August 1868 Marina married Thomas Baker and on her marriage certificate she gave her father as Edward Wright).
John Clay died on Oct 24 1857, aged 60 … recorded as John Clay Flint.
His wife Elizabeth died on Feb 22 1877, aged 80 … recorded as Elizabeth Flint Clay!!
As for the Siverns vs Sissons problem, you write that another researcher has examined the original.
I transcribed this part of the register many years ago when I was doing a general search. This name was of no particular significance to me at that time, so I didn’t take an overdue note of it. If your ‘friend’ has now looked again at this entry and thinks it is Sissons then I would be inclined to accept his/her judgement, or at least lean to that conclusion.
As you know the original record is at the Derbyshire Records Office and I believe it is possible to get from there a photocopy of what you want. (I think it is part of D3082 but of course you would be more precise) Perhaps your ‘researcher’ might visit again and get a copy to send to you?!!
If I haven’t made any of these details clear enough, please follow them up with me, … or if you question any of this or need to ask more. Do remember that this is the result only of my research so far.
Dave (September 12th 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Hi Dave, You have given me some wonderful background information recently on my extended Shorthose family from Cotmanhay (i.e. the Knightons, Clays, Boams to name but a few) and I wonder if you could now perhaps point me in the right direction for any info on the possible parentage of my 5x Gt Grandmother – Mary Sissons b. approx 1760 (no idea where?? but hopefully still local to Ilkeston???) who married George Knighton in 1781 in Ilkeston.
Could she be related to the Sisson family (ie I am thinking of Thomas the Giant Sisson ??) but their surname is spelt without the final “s”. I cannot seem to get a grip on her parents/ her birth/baptism etc and wonder if you had come across these during your past research?
Yours is a brilliant website and you are to be congratulated on what you have researched.
Christina (November 17th 2015)
In reply to Christina Sharpe (nee Shorthose).
I reckon George and Mary had at least 10 children, the last one being baptised at St Mary’s in 1803. Assuming that they were both alive about that time I can see only one burial for a George Knighton before 1841 and that was on April 28th 1825 at St Mary’s, when that George was aged 70, giving a birth year about 1755.
Looking for a burial for Mary Knighton after 1803 I can find two candidates….
Mary Knighton of Cotmanhay buried at St Mary’s in August 1827, aged 65 (birth year about 1762)
Mary Knighton, a widow, aged 83 (birth year 1755) who was living with her son George when she died on Jan 15th 1838 at Cotmanhay.
(There were other Marys but I have eliminated them for a variety of reasons)
Allowing for the fact that burial ages can be somewhat inaccurate, the only Mary Sisson I can find baptised 1750-1770 in the daughter of Samuel and Mary (Garrott?) in 1767.
I can’t find either George or Mary on the 1841 census so am assuming they were both dead.
Mary could have remarried after the death of George? Or there is possibility that she was a widow when she married in 1781 (although at that time the vicar seems to have indicated when a bride was a widow)
I can find no evidence that they were both born in Ilkeston/Cotmanhay so we may have to look a little wider.
The Mary who died in 1838 had a son George who may still be alive on the 1841 census? … I can find no evidence yet that he died 1838-1841.
I shouldn’t worry too much about the spelling of Sisson or Sissons … they seem to be interchangeable and there are many more variations, as there are with Knighton !!
I offer a lot of assumptions but not a lot of concrete help I am afraid.
Dave (November 18th 2015)
Hi Dave, your website is fascinating, and how interesting to read the stories! I live in far western Canada, and am related to a good many of the Old Ilkeston families through both grandparents born there, with surnames in their trees including: Beardsley, Beaumont, Birch, Goddard, Brown, Skeavington, Wagstaff, Shardlowe, Daykin, Rawdin, Gregory, Burgin-Richardson, etc. etc.; some of these relations are on both my grandparents’ trees! My question regards photos … photos … if I were to send a couple photos are you able to post them? I’d be interested in seeing others’ old family photographs as well if provided to view. I have one of my great-grandparents Amos and Sarah (nee Birch) Beardsley sitting in front of their house on (South Street) in one of the first Austin 7’s!
Thank you for a wonderful site to refer to.
Pam (September 16th 2015)
So nice to hear from you, What a wealth of good old solid Ilkestonians you are connected to !!
re the photos .. I would certainly wholeheartedly welcome any photos, illustrations, pictures, etc from any source (being wary of copyright of course).
The one of Amos and Sarah sounds fascinating and if you send it to me I will do my best.
If you could send it in jpg form? If you send it to firstname.lastname@example.org I will try to transfer it to the site … with any luck!
Let’s see how we go with that.
And thank you so much for this offer.
Dave. (September 16th 2015)
Henshaw and Sisson
As a descendent of Samuel Henshaw and Fanny Sisson (mar 1824), I was interested to see that you have noted that Samuel was the son of Samuel and Elizabeth (Smith) mar 1787. Do you have a source for this information?
By the way,congratulations on your monumental achievement in transcribing such a huge volume of data with such accuracy.
Mick Henshaw (November 25th 2015)
In reply to Mick Henshaw.
I think you are referring to my notes on the Henshaws accompanying the census transcriptions. The notes next to Samuel are in parenthesis, indicating that they are a suggestion based on the available evidence (not much of it)
Following Samuel (or what appears to be him) around Ilkeston via the census, he seems to be estranged from his wife Fanny after the birth of 3 children and their baptisms in 1837. Fanny died in 1867, aged 67 when according to her death details, Samuel was still alive.
Samuel was a framework knitter/stockinger by trade and I believe he appears on the Ilkeston census up to 1881, usually as a lodger or alone but never with Fanny. I lose track of him after 1881 but he may have died in 1885/6. As usual the evidence shows some variety in age but it appears that he was born about 1800.
His locations on each of the censuses (if it is him) don’t give much of a clue as to who he is except perhaps the 1841 census when he is with others of the Henshaw clan … his brother?
The suggestion about Samuel’s parentage is therefore just that … a suggestion, based around baptisms and census entries. Hopefully someone from the numerous Ilkeston Henshaws can add further detail ??
Dave (November 25th 2015)
Regarding Giant Sisson 1781-1847
I am led to believe that he was Thomas Sisson 1797-1880 and he married Elizabeth Black 1802.
Could this be so?
Regards Dennis Ryan (December 16th 2015)
In reply to Dennis Ryan.
I have commented on Giant Sisson in reply to a previous post … see the Sisson Family in the Comments Summary
In ‘The History of Ilkeston’ (page 249) by Trueman and Marston the authors refer to the great-grandson of Giant Sisson who lives in Church Street (in 1899). This would be miner Thomas Sisson, born in 1867, married to Maria Henshaw in 1894 and living at 15 Church St, Cotmanhay in 1901.
His parents were Thomas Sisson and Louisa (nee Aldred) married in 1862, his paternal grandfather was Thomas Sisson born in 1814 and married to Elizabeth Stirland in 1834, and his great grandfather Thomas ‘Giant’ Sisson died on May 17th 1847, aged 66. His widow Sarah (nee Smith) died on Dec 9 1859.
You mention a Thomas Sisson born in 1797 and dying in 1880 … Thomas Sisson, married to Elizabeth Stirland, died in 1880 but he wasn’t born in 1797. I have no record of a Thomas Sisson born in 1797 or thereabouts.
You mention a marriage in 1802 of Thomas who was born in 1797 … I assume that there must be a mistyping of some dates here?
The marriage to Elizabeth Black ? … Again I have no record of this.
I would be interested in more detail of this and the other points you raise.
Dave (December 18th 2015)
In reply to Dave.
Giant Sisson is one of my ancestors.
My Grandmother Louisa Sisson 1888-1975. her father Joseph Granville Sisson 1856-1910, her mother Sarah Lawton Smedley 1857-1930,Grandparents Thomas Sisson 1815-1880 & Elizabeth Stirland 1816-1884 (1871 census 17 Church Street ) Great Grandparents Thomas Sisson 1797-1880 & Elizabeth Back 1802, can you put me right on the later please? (December 20th 2015)
In reply to Dennis Ryan.
Louisa Sisson was born in 1886, the daughter of Joseph Granville (1855-1910) and Sarah Lawton (nee Smedley) … the latter was born on July 20th 1856 and died on Dec 21st 1930.
Joseph Granville Sisson was the youngest son of Thomas and Elizabeth (nee Stirland) who had married on May 22nd 1834.
Thomas Sisson was baptised at St Mary’s Church on January 14th 1814 and died on Dec 3rd 1880 at Cotmanhay, with a registered age of 65. The baptism record of St Mary’s appears to show that his parents were Thomas (Giant) Sisson and ‘Elizabeth‘… I believe that the latter entry is an error and the mother should be ‘Sarah’. There is no marriage I could find of a Thomas Sisson and an Elizabeth …. there is a marriage of Thomas Sisson to Sarah Smith on Aug 31st 1805 and after this date there are the baptisms of several children born to Thomas and Sarah from 1806 to 1825 … during that time there is only one baptism for ‘Thomas and Elizabeth‘.
On the 1841 census Thomas ‘Giant’ Sisson is living at Cotmanhay with his wife Sarah, his son Aaron (the second), Aaron’s wife Hannah (nee Taylor), and Thomas’s daughter Ann. The previous entry on the census shows Thomas Sisson junior with his wife Elizabeth (nee Stirland) and their family.
Thomas and Sarah had several children, including twins Aaron (the first) and Moses who were born on Dec 29th 1809. Neither survived infancy however and were both buried at St Mary’s Church on Jan 30th 1810 .. when they were recorded as children of Thomas and ‘Ann‘, another error?
Your grandmother Louisa had an uncle, Albert Sisson, an older brother of Joseph Granville, and there is a short description of him, with a photograph, in the book by Edwin Trueman called ‘Borough of Ilkeston; a portrait gallery of Forty of its Principal Inhabitants’ (published in 1911). Albert is described as “a grandson of ‘Giant’ Thomas Sisson”… this is the Thomas born in 1781 and who died in 1847, aged 66.
As I mentioned in my last posting, I am puzzled by the ‘Thomas Sisson of 1797-1880’ and of ‘Elizabeth Back/Black 1802’
Dave (December 21st 2015)
thank you very much for replying with your information. I think I must be in error about Thomas Sisson & Elizabeth Black (whom I think was from Kimberly)
Cheers Dennis (December 21st 2015)