Brenda Sweeney commented (Jul 26th 2015) …
I have been researching my family tree which includes the families of Gertrude Simpson and Samuel Scattergood who are my great, great grandparents. I have been trying more so to sort out the Scattergood families in Ilkeston without mixing them up, which I’m sure are probably related somehow. (brothers or cousins, etc.) I’m quite sure though that through this site I’ve been able to sort the Simpson side, however there just seems to be so many Scattergoods! I doubt that I’ll ever figure it out. I do know that Samuel Scattergood’s baptismal certificate in February 1827, tells me that his parents were Thomas and Mary Scattergood (nee Gorse), but beyond that I don’t find any information for Thomas, his father, in Ilkeston. However I will continue my search as I find it all so fascinating!
Dave replied (July 28th 2015) …
I well understand your frustration with the Scattergood clan … there are so many strands and research is not helped by the fact that several members had an alias surname.
I believe that your Thomas Scattergood died in Ilkeston and was buried at St Mary’s Church on Feb 3rd 1837, aged 56. By that time his first wife Mary had died in 1827 and he had married Fanny (formerly Thompson, nee Chambers) in 1829 …. she was also on her second spouse, and after the death of Thomas she married widower James Henshaw in 1840.
Thomas and Mary had at least 11 children and then he had another three with Fanny.
Thomas’s death age (which of course may not be accurate) suggests a birth around 1780/1781.
The picture is complicated by the fact that there were also several Scattergood families living in villages/towns adjacent to Ilkeston .. like Cossall, Trowell and Stapleford in Nottinghamshire, and West Hallam, Mapperley, Stanley and Stanton by Dale in Derbyshire …. and they often moved into and out of Ilkeston.
The records of Stanley (St Andrew’s Church) show a baptism of Thomas Scattergood, in October 1780, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton).
If there is a particular problem or a dead end that is puzzling you (or several!) please feel free to share it. If we put our heads together maybe we can make progress? Or maybe someone else will chip in?
Brenda responded (July 30th 2015) …
I was very excited, but also a bit confused after reading your response to the mysteries of the Scattergood clan. It would seem that I have quite possibly been barking up the wrong Scattergood family tree! Your information about Thomas Scattergood, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton) makes much more sense than the “hint” that was sent to me by the ancestry.co.uk website. They had suggested that Thomas was born in Fillongley, Warwickshire in 1787 and was the son of Thomas & Elizabeth (nee Wright) Scattergood of Fillongley. Obviously I now need to make corrections.
I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone, if there were 11 children. I thought perhaps I was looking up the wrong tree again. But then I also found the 3 children Thomas had with Fanny that you mentioned. However, after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. At the time of Thomas’ death in 1837 Samuel would have only been 10 years old. I located some of his siblings through the 1841 census on this site living as lodgers with other families, but nothing of Samuel. I do finally locate him in the marriages section of this site to Gertrude on Oct 24, 1849. So it would seem all is good there.
There is one puzzling thing… I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley. However, the1780 record is showing the given name as *Nces. Obviously a transcription error and the record has been indexed so I’m unable to look for myself. Other than that, my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born. And one other elusive relative from Staffordshire which is proving to be a royal pain in more ways than one.
Dave, I am so thankful to you for the information you have given me. It has been very trying at times for me as I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages. Who knows, maybe one day a trip would be in order, then it might all make more sense!
Dave replied (Aug 1st 2015) …
Thanks for the reply which gives us something to work on.
I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone …. Like you I have found records for 10 children. However there is an Eliza Scattergood, born in Ilkeston, who married Samuel Hutchinson in Nov 1831 at St Mary’s Church in Ilkeston. The Hutchinsons later lived in Club Row (where Fanny, the widow of Thomas Scattergood, was also living). The first child of Eliza and Samuel Hutchinson was Isaiah, born in 1832 but baptised in December 1834 at the Wesleyan Chapel when the parents of Eliza were recorded as Thomas and Mary Scattergood.The family later moved into Chapel St where Eliza died on June 26th 1871, aged 62. This would put her birth year about 1809/1810 which would fit into the family tree of Thomas and Mary (nee Gorse)? I can find no other ‘Thomas and Mary Scattergood’ in Ilkeston at this time, as yet.
after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. … me too !! I can’t find him on the 1841 or 51 census, nor Gertrude on the 1851 census. You would think that someone with the name Gertrude Scattergood might be relatively easy to find on the census, but then you have to remember the vagaries of the enumerators and or/transcribers. As Samuel is often described as a boatman or waterman, then this occupation could have taken him to many ‘foreign’ areas in England. I note that the Simpson family of Gertrude also left Ilkeston in 1851 and that her father Willoughby Simpson married his second wife Emma Spittle of Birmingham in Aston, Warwickshire in July 1851 (His first wife Harriet (nee Hardy) died on Feb 19 1851 at Ilkeston). So maybe they were all together somewhere (in Warwickshire? … a Warwickshire connection??) Shortly after 1851 they are all back in Ilkeston however.
I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley … Brenda there is an excellent web site on Stanley compiled by Alan Bloor …. if you type in ‘Stanley One-Place Study’ you should find it, where, amongst other details, it lists all the parish records, including those of Thomas and Ruth.
my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born …. they were married at Spondon Parish Church on Nov 20th 1765 when they were both recorded as living at Stanley (a few miles away)
I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages … I can see that you might be very confused and uncertain abou all these small places. If you find a Google map of Ilkeston you will see it surrounded by villages/towns (most of which were very small in the nineteenth century) where there were ‘branches’ of Scattergoods.
With Ilkeston at the centre, Cossall is at 2 o’clock, Trowell is at 4 o’clock, Stapleford is at 5 o’clock (all in Nottinghamshire), Stanton by Dale is at 6 o’clock, Dale Abbey is at 8 o’clock, Stanley and West Hallam roughly at 9 o’clock, Mapperley at 10 o’clock (all in Derbyshire).
As I have pointed out, several Scattergoods from these places made their way into Ilkeston at one time or another. For exampleJoseph Scattergood was born in Stanton by Dale, son of Richard whose family kept the Stanhope Arms in that village for many years, though Joseph spent most of his life in Ilkeston.
Brenda added (Aug 2nd 2015) …
I did visit Alan Bloor’s web site as you suggested and found quite a bit of information re: Thomas Scattergood and Ruth Barton. I found that Ruth’s parents were Stephen and Hannah Barton. With the information regarding Thomas and Ruth’s marriage at Spondon Parish Church on 20 Nov 1765, I found that their marriage was witnessed by Luke Scattergood and G. Barton. (I’m guessing maybe Ruth’s brother Gregory?) As to Luke, maybe a brother to Thomas? The record shows Thomas’ burial date as 12 Dec 1789, however no birth date or birth place is recorded. I tried a search on Ancestry also but no results showing a Thomas Scattergood in Stanley. I found a Luke Scattergood baptized on 27 Jan 1752 in Kirk Hallam, Derbyshire, with parents Samuel and Sarah Scattergood so I tried searching Thomas in the same location with the same parents but came up empty.
Back to Ruth’s parents, Stephen and Hannah Barton, I found a marriage recorded on 22 Jan 1729 for Stephen Barton of West Hallam, & Hannah Hunt, of Weston Underwood in the Derbyshire: Registers of Marriages, 1538-1812. Again, as I’m unfamiliar with all these little towns, I’m not too sure if this would be a possibility of being the correct parents for Ruth. West Hallam was a town name you mentioned as being close to Ilkeston and Stanley, so I am thinking (hoping) I might have the right people here. Then further to this finding, with the hopes that I have the correct Stephen Barton, I then found a baptismal certificate for Stephen Barton on 30 Dec 1702, in West Hallam showing parents John and Anne Barton.
I have added Eliza Scattergood Hutchinson into Thomas and Mary’s family also. Thank you for that info, I can find no record through Ancestry for Eliza, but on the Old Ilkeston site I did see the record. Dave, you have really helped me to fill in a lot of the “blanks” and I am very appreciative. If you think I may have any incorrect information in the above mentioned today, please let me know your thoughts?
Dave replied (Aug 3rd 2015) …
To me you appear to be on the right path.
Both West Hallam and Kirk Hallam are possible Scattergood places and very close to Stanley and Ilkeston.
The marriage of Stephen Barton and Hannah Hunt which you mention was at Derby St Alkmund’s Church.
Press on !! And do please add any other problems or seek more advice if the need arises.
Brenda asked (Aug 10th 2015) …
I believe at this moment I have gone as far as I can on my Scattergood relatives … However, I have now hit several brick walls so have decided to switch to the Simpsons of Ilkeston. (Gertrude Simpson having married Samuel Scattergood, my 2nd great-grandparents)
I’m not sure if you can help to clarify something for me, but I felt it wouldn’t hurt to ask as you helped me immensely with the Scattergoods.
It would appear that William Willoughby Simpson, born abt 1771 and Willoughby Simpson born abt 1804 both married women with the surname of Hardy. The elder Willoughby married Mary Hardy, (born abt 1781), in 1801. The younger Willoughby married Harriet Hardy, (born abt 1804), in 1826. On the Old Ilkeston site, the younger Willoughby is shown as being “of Willoughby and Mary (Hardy) mar 1801”,their son, however his wife Harriet Hardy doesn’t show her parent’s names. I’m wondering if you might be able to shed any light on this information. From the census for 1841 I did see that Harriet had an illegal daughter, Emmeler (aka Emily), prior to her marriage to Willoughby. I am trying to figure out if Harriet might have been related to Mary in some way prior to the marriages?
Dave wrote (Aug 13th 2015) …
Willoughby Simpson married Mary Hardy at St Giles Church in Sandiacre, Derbyshire on July 21st 1801 when the groom was described as living in Ilkeston and Mary in Sandiacre. The latter place is just a few miles from Ilkeston and between the two is Stanton by Dale.
On the 1841 census Mary is described as being born in Derbyshire and unfortunately she died before the 1851 census .. on Feb 8th 1849 when her reported age was 68, suggesting a birth year around 1780.
Willoughby junior and Harriet Hardy were married at St Mary Magdalene Church in Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire on Mar 27th 1826.
Prior to that Harriet gave birth to her illegitimate daughter Emily who was baptised at the same church on Sep 2nd 1822 .. when her parents were given as Harriet Hardy and Richard Blackburn of Norton, Lincolnshire (a few miles to the north-east of Newark, (just across the Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire border).
On the 1841 census Harriet is described as ‘not born in Derbyshire’ and she too died at Ilkeston just before the 1851 census … on Feb 19th 1851, aged 57 (thus a birth year around 1794).
Her daughter Emily married Jonathan Eyre in 1845 and eventually left Ilkeston to settle in Nottingham where she died in 1894 (Jonathan died there in 1890).
The places of marriage and the birth of Emily would lead me to make some suppositions … but at the moment I can offer no other pieces of detail which might help. I wouldn’t assume that the same surname could not be a coincidence however.
Brenda replied (Aug 14th 2015) …
I hope I am wrong in my assumption, but I believe my ancestors, the Scattergoods and Simpsons of Ilkeston, lived a hard life back in the 1800’s. It seems they were hard workers, at least I hope that is the case, but that they worked long hours for a pittance. I have yet to read all there is on this site and I am very interested in learning more about Ilkeston. As far as learning anything more of my relatives, sadly, I believe my search may be coming to an end. I am finding it difficult to locate information prior to 1837 with the few other resources I’m aware of (i.e. ancestry.co.uk and freebmd.org.uk), I started this search of ancestors for my Aunt who is 80 years old and knew nothing of her Mother’s side of the family. She is thrilled with all of what I have passed on to her, most coming from this site. So from her and myself, thanks again Dave!
Brenda wrote (May 26th 2016) …
I’m back in hopes of learning some information about my 2 x’s great grandmother Gertrude Scattergood (nee Simpson) b.1830 and d.1865 in Ilkeston. You were so very helpful with my 2 x’s great grandfather’s line (Samuel Scattergood b.1827 and d.1883 in Ilkeston) and I’m hoping you may be able to help with Gertrude.
As mentioned, Gertrude was born in Ilkeston on 13 June 1830 to Willoughby and Harriet (nee Hardy) Simpson. She married Samuel Scattergood on 24 Oct 1849 at St. Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. They had 6 children that I’m aware of, possibly 7. So this is where my question comes in. Allen/Alan Scattergood was Samuel’s last child (which would be his 7th), however I am trying to confirm whether Gertrude was his mother or if Samuel’s 2nd wife Jemima, whom it appears he married only a couple of months after Gertrude’s passing, was his mother. I am showing discrepancies for a birthdate for Allen/Alan.
On the FREEbmd website I find an Allen Scattergood born in the 3rd quarter in 1865 in Basford.
In the England Select Deaths and Burials 1538-1991 online records, I also have found a burial date of 25 Aug 1865 in Ilkeston for Gertrude Scattergood. However, I didn’t see the record of Gertrude’s burial on this site. I realize the birth records on this site don’t cover 1865 so I’m not sure where I might find something more concrete other than 3rd quarter 1865 for Allen’s birth.. My thought is that perhaps Gertrude may have died either giving birth to Allen or shortly thereafter.
I have the 1871 census that does show Allen as aged 5 with an estimated birth year as 1866, however, if I’m correct in my thinking, because the census was carried out on 2 April 1871, if Allen was indeed born sometime in the 3rd quarter of 1865, he wouldn’t have yet had his birthday.
If you can shed any light on Gertrude’s passing and/or Allen’s birth and my suspicions that she did pass either during or shortly after giving birth I would be very grateful.
I have recently started researching in newspapers and have found some very interesting entries regarding the Scattergood/Simpson families… I now call them my “dodgy” ancestors. But then I remind myself that if not for them I might not be here!
Dave replied (May 27th 2016) …
I don’t have precise details of the birth of Allen who was, I think, the seventh child. However you should not lose sight of the fact that when you access the FreeBMB site, you are getting details of the birth registration and not details of the birth. So although the birth of Allen was registered in the 3rd quarter he may well have been born in June of 1865 or even earlier.
You probably don’t want an extra expense but the only way to get a definitive answer to when Allen was born is to obtain the birth certificate, which will, of course give you all the details you are looking for, including who his parents were. My hunch … and only a hunch … is that Gertrude was his mother — whom you have identified died in Aug 1865.
I have found him on the 1881 census with his father on a canal boat at Sandiacre.
There is also the death of ‘Allen Scattergood’ in late April of 1889 at Derby .. his recorded death age was 23.
There is coverage of this death in several articles in the Derby Mercury and of the inquest which followed it … although the paper contradicts itself on the age of the deceased. I see that you are researching in newspapers and so you may have found this already (April and May 1889).
Brenda replied (May 27th 2016) …
I am searching on http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk in the Derby Mercury and I was able to find the death notice … I did a little more digging and did come across the few articles of Allen Scattergood’s death. As mentioned, I’m still fairly new into newspaper research and didn’t take into account the possible misspelling of name and age variations. Well, it appears that Allen’s death was not as scandalous as a murder, rest his soul, but I have to say I do love reading of my ancestors in the paper, whether good or bad!
I must say, I’m never surprised by the goings on of my Scattergood/Simpson relatives. They definitely were a dodgy bunch!
I think I will order the birth certificate for Allen also so that I can definitely confirm his parentage.
Also, thank you for mentioning the 1881 census. I had not come across it in my research but when you said you found Allen with his father I started searching again and lo and behold, there they were the “Scattergones”! No wonder I didn’t find them.
Lastly, in my original message I mentioned Gertrude’s burial in Ilkeston. I’m not finding any information on this site as to her date of death or place of burial. Would you happen to know any more details on that?
Dave replied (May 28th 2016) …
The burial of Gertrude appears on the ‘Family Search’ site and from the information given I am almost certain she was buried at St Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. I think if you looked at the burial records of that church they would not show her date of death (just as many baptism records don’t show the date of birth)… again you would need a certificate to be sure of the death date. But it is almost certainly only a few days at most before the burial date?
Brenda asked (Nov 9th 2017) …
My Gr Grandmother, Harriet Scattergood married Walter Green in 1874 in Nottingham. I don’t believe Walter ever lived in Ilkeston but it appears, according to the 1851 census, that his parents and 2 brothers did. It shows his older brother Joseph Green actually born in Ilkeston abt 1843-1844.
I cannot find any info other than that census about the Green family. Walter and Joseph’s parents were John Green and Elizabeth nee Hufton. This is according to Walter’s birth certificate. There appears to be a marriage for John Edward Gree(m) and Elizabeth “Houghton” in Ilkeston in Nov 1841. I’m wondering if this might be Joseph and Walter’s parents? Different spelling of Hufton/Houghton plus Greem instead of Green so maybe a stretch?
If you can shed any light on all of this I will be most grateful.
Dave replied (Nov 11th 2017) …
John Edward Green and Elizabeth Houghton (also found as Hofton/Hufton/Huffon etc etc !!) had an illegitimate son John Hofton (alias Green) born on Aug 26th 1837 at Ilkeston .. the child died, aged 10 days, on Sept 4th 1837. At this time Elizabeth had a sister called Hannah Hofton.
This suggests that John Edward — born in Quorndon about 1812 — was around Ilkeston at this time. On the 1841 census Elizabeth Houghton/Hofton — born about 1817 at Langley, Derbyshire — was living at Pimlico with John and Hannah Aldred.
Both John Edward and Elizabeth were framework knitters. They married at St Mary’s Church just after the census was taken, on Nov 21 1841 as you suggest — the father of Elizabeth was William, while John Edward’s father was John.
John Edward and Elizabeth then had an unnamed son born on Jan 3rd 1842 at Ilkeston … he died 3 days later on Jan 6th 1842.
Their son Joseph was born on Oct 12 1843 at Ilkeston and it seems that the Green family then cut their links with Ilkeston and moved firstly to Earl Shilton, Leicestershire, where sons William (1846) and Walter (1856) were born.
Then the family moved to Carlton, Nottingham, where they are found on the 1871 and 1881 censuses.
The son Joseph, born at Ilkeston, married Sabina Seagrave/Segrave on Jun 29th 1868 at Gedling (neighbouring Carlton) .. he later traded as an ‘elastic/surgical bandage maker’. Sabina traded as a draper in Carlton.
I believe Joseph died in 1897 while Sabina died in 1906. There don’t seem to have been any children.
Son William was in the same trade as his older bother. He married Eliza Whitehurst at Gedling on Mar 9th 1878 and then continued to live in Carlton. There were 10 children, seven surviving.
And then there is, of course, Walter …
I hope this fills in a few gaps for you.
Brenda replied (Nov 13th 2017) …
Thank you ever so much for all of this information!!
Walter has turned out to be a real surprise in what I have learned about him. As I mentioned he married my Great Grandmother Harriet in 1874. I found them in the 1881 and 1891 census records living in Nottingham but then Walter went missing from the census record in 1901 with Harriet shown as head. I thought perhaps he had died but not so as he was back listed in the 1911 census as head of the family. I eventually learned that he had gone to America in 1885 and was employed as an elastic bandage maker living as a lodger presumably in a boarding house! Eventually his son Walter Jr joined him there to work also. I’m sure there were trips back and forth to England for both of them as Walter Sr had 6 more children after 1885. However I find it very strange that for over 15 years he lived pretty much separated from Harriet. But those seem to be the facts!