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Welcome to Old Ilkeston, compiled by Dave Johnson (helped by many other contributors)

Do you have any questions or comments about the website or it’s content?

I will be more than happy to try to answer any question you might have or respond to any comment. . .

Please scroll down to the bottom of this page where you will see the place to leave your contribution.

There are places I remember all my life ... ... the crossroads of North Street and Station Road, a stone's throw from the site of my first home, where -- in the pre-Chalons Way Era -- stood the Erewash Hotel, Starr and Brookes carpet shop, Wright's the gent's barber, and Wards the butchers who supplied the Tuesday tea of shop-made faggots for most in the neighbourhood. ... Little Dustpan, which I walked up and down on my way to and from Chaucer Infants' school, and then the Junior school, to hear the wise words of Ma Gormley and Mr Bateman, Polly Virgo and Jack Syson. ... the sardine tin that was Doug's Coffee Bar standing in the corner of the Market Place, next to the Church Institute where my mates and I would meet to listen to Eddie Cochran and Buddy Holly, Beatles and Kinks, Yardbirds and Fleetwood Mac (Mark 1), Dylan and Byrds, after a hard day's graft at the Grammar School (Mark 3) listening in a different way to Gibbo and Kenny Bettle, Ma Selby and Mr Shaw, Derek Akers and Dilys Gough, Max Payne et al. ... the old Buffalo Head pub in Durham City where I spent my first of several visits preparing for a next-day admissions interview (successful) at the University up the road. ... the Student Refectory at Nottingham University where the food prices were too high and the queues too long so that between lectures the pinball machine was cheaper and more attractive than eating. .. and despite it all, my formal education did provide me with some academic success to allow me many years of dishing it out to others.
  1. Jé Maverick Reply

    Pre-1841 Censuses

    Hi Dave. 🙂

    I was wondering if there is any information on the Ilkeston censuses taken between 1801 and 1841, where one is likely to find such info if there is any, and if so, whether you plan to publish it on this site.
    Cheers,
    J.

    Dave replied …
    J,
    It seems as though the pre-1841 censuses for Ilkeston are ‘lost’.
    I have never located them and they don’t seem to be held anywhere.
    As you are probably aware, they were generally little more than ‘head-counts’ and are of very limited use to family historians. After a statistical summary had been made the central authorities, most of the returns of the local census enumerators were destroyed (very few survived).
    You will find more detail about them at the website familyhistory.co.uk which list all pre-1841 censuses for every county including Derbyshire
    Sorry.
    Dave

    • Jé Maverick Reply

      Thank you, Dave, that’s a wonderful resource. I don’t suppose you have any info on local lock-ups, circa 1791-1792? Was there a lock-up in Ilkeston, or would local offenders awaiting trial at the Derby assizes be detained in Derby Gaol itself?

      Cheers,

      J.

      • Dave Reply

        J,
        I have copied this from the website …
        In the lower Market Place stood a block of buildings formed from the Butter Market and the National Schools, and also containing the local Lock-up called the ‘Round House’ — which was square — where accused persons would spend the night before being transported to the Petty Sessions at Smalley, or to Derby.
        This block stood under the north Church wall, approximately on the site now occupied by the present-day toilet building and was directly opposite Thomas Merry’s business premises. It was open along its front, protected only by iron railings.

        You will find a picture also on the site at ‘The grand tour — Education in Ilkeston — the Old Market Hall

        Dave’

  2. Brenda Sweeney Reply

    Scattergood family
    Hello again Dave,
    You have been most helpful in the past with my Scattergood family. I’m hoping you might be able to assist me once again.
    My Gr Grandmother, Harriet Scattergood married Walter Green in 1874 in Nottingham. I don’t believe Walter ever lived in Ilkeston but it appears, according to the 1851 census, that his parents and 2 brothers did. It shows his older brother Joseph Green actually born in Ilkeston abt 1843-1844. I cannot find any info other than that census about the Green family. Walter and Joseph’s parents were John Green and Elizabeth nee Hufton. This is according to Walter’s birth certificate. There appears to be a marriage for John Edward Gree(m) and Elizabeth “Houghton” in Ilkeston in Nov 1841. I’m wondering if this might be Joseph and Walter’s parents? Different spelling of Hufton/Houghton plus Greem instead of Green so maybe a stretch?
    If you can shed any light on all of this I will be most grateful.
    I do hope all is well with you and hope to hear from you soon.
    Thank you Dave!
    Brenda Sweeney

    Dave replied …
    Brenda,
    John Edward Green and Elizabeth Houghton (also found as Hofton/Hufton/Huffon etc etc !!) had an illegitimate son John Hofton (alias Green) born on Aug 26th 1837 at Ilkeston .. the child died, aged 10 days, on Sept 4th 1837. At this time Elizabeth had a sister called Hannah Hofton.
    This suggests that John Edward — born in Quorndon about 1812 — was around Ilkeston at this time. On the 1841 census Elizabeth Houghton/Hofton — born about 1817 at Langley, Derbyshire — was living at Pimlico with John and Hannah Aldred.
    Both John Edward and Elizabeth were framework knitters. They married at St Mary’s Church just after the census was taken, on Nov 21 1841 as you suggest — the father of Elizabeth was William, while John Edward’s father was John.
    John Edward and Elizabeth then had an unnamed son born on Jan 3rd 1842 at Ilkeston … he died 3 days later on Jan 6th 1842.
    Their son Joseph was born on Oct 12 1843 at Ilkeston and it seems that the Green family then cut their links with Ilkeston and moved firstly to Earl Shilton, Leicestershire, where sons William (1846) and Walter (1856) were born.
    Then the family moved to Carlton, Nottingham, where they are found on the 1871 and 1881 censuses.
    The son Joseph, born at Ilkeston, married Sabina Seagrave/Segrave on Jun 29th 1868 at Gedling (neighbouring Carlton) .. he later traded as an ‘elastic/surgical bandage maker’. Sabina traded as a draper in Carlton.
    I believe Joseph died in 1897 while Sabina died in 1906. There don’t seem to have been any children.
    Son William was in the same trade as his older bother. He married Eliza Whitehurst at Gedling on Mar 9th 1878 and then continued to live in Carlton. There were 10 children, seven surviving.
    And then there is, of course, Walter …
    I hope this fills in a few gaps for you.

    Brenda replied …
    Oh my goodness Dave!! Thank you ever so much for all of this information!! Much more than I had ever thought there would be. I don’t know where you find all of this information but I’m so happy you did! I like the way you added … and then there was Walter. Walter has turned out to be a real surprise in what I have learned about him. As I mentioned he married my Great Grandmother Harriet in 1874. I found them in the 1881 and 1891 census records living in Nottingham but then Walter went missing from the census record in 1901 with Harriet shown as head. I thought perhaps he had died but not so as he was back listed in the 1911 census as head of the family. I eventually learned that he had gone to America in 1885 and was employed as an elastic bandage maker living as a lodger presumably in a boarding house! Eventually his son Walter Jr joined him there to work also. I’m sure there were trips back and forth to England for both of them as Walter Sr had 6 more children after 1885. However I find it very strange that for over 15 years he lived pretty much separated from Harriet. But those seem to be the facts!
    Again Dave, thank you so very much for all of this wonderful information! Take care…

    Brenda then added …

    Hello again Dave,
    Just a quick clarification if you could please? In adding the information to my tree that you so generously provided, I was just a little unsure about the 1841 census where Elizabeth Hufton is living with John and Hannah Aldred in Pimlico. If I’m reading your info correctly I think you’re saying that Hannah Aldred was Elizabeth’s sister? It appears that Hannah Aldred is 63 and Elizabeth is 20. It seems like quite an age gap between siblings. I might be misunderstanding the information.
    I’m also wondering if you know if either of the “William Huftons” shown in the 1841 census might be Elizabeth’s father? ( that may help me with Elizabeth’s mother’s name possibly then)
    Thank you again for all your help.
    Brenda

    Dave replied …
    Brenda,
    Apologies if I am confusing you.
    Elizabeth Hufton, aged 20, is at Pimlico with the Aldreds but I am not suggesting that she is in any way related to them.
    Hannah Aldred was born Hannah Hopewell, daughter of Samuel and Ellen (Chambers) … also at the same address is William Hopewell who is probably Hannah’s brother.
    As Elizabeth Hufton was born at Langley, her family probably had connections with Heanor as much as Ilkeston. I know she had a sister Hannah … and there is a Hannah Hufton, daughter of William and Sarah (Birkimshire/Bircumshaw) born in Langley in 1814. This William is a framework knitter and his daughter Hannah married John Paxton (Nov 6th 1837) at St Mary’s Church … who should be one of the witnesses but ‘John Green’ !!
    Dave

    Brenda replied …
    Hi Dave,
    No apologies necessary… it doesn’t take much to confuse me these days! I believe I have it all sorted now with Hannah and John Paxton. And oh my goodness… John Green was a witness! Wonderful!

    Thank you once again for being so generous with your time and knowledge!

    Kindest regards
    Brenda

  3. donna croule Reply

    hi dave well the family tree has grown a bit but i have a question did charlotte die age 4 ? ive been for my first trip round st marys found a couple of Simpsons but no willoughby sr a little disapointed i think i may have found harriets parents but need a little more digging and its also turned up the issac was a freemason with one of his brothers ! still digging but any help would be great thanks donna

    • Dave Reply

      Donna,
      I’m glad to see that your tree is growing.
      Charlotte Simpson was buried at St Mary’s Church on Mar 8th 1837, aged 4 years. I am presuming that this is the same Charlotte born to Willoughby and Harriett in 1832.
      I am only too willing to try to help … if there is anything specific you want to investigate.

      Dave

      • donna croule Reply

        hi dave ill be back to st marys at the weekend as i missed part of the grave yard its charlotte really as i have found one on ancestry that fits but she moved to east leake and had lots of children i thought she died too. and willoughby snr married to mary hardy is proving difficulti think i found marys parents richard and mary . thanks donna

  4. Ken Taylor Reply

    Hi, I’ve been researching the Winfield branch of our family and am wondering if Lucy Harrison (born 1785 at Crich) who married George Winfield in 1807 at Ilkeston, is the same person as Sarah Harrison (also born in 1780s at Crich)…

    Sarah appears with husband George Winfield in the 1861 Census and according to the Ilkeston ‘Independent’ baptism records was mother to his children Ann (born 1814), George (1819) and Sarah (1821).

    Lucy and Sarah each have significant gaps in their genealogical record that the other neatly fills, and with no overlaps that I’ve found. However, that’s still only circumstantial evidence, and I’d really like to find a contemporaneous record that indicates Lucy and Sarah are actually one and the same.

    If you know of such a thing, or can shed any other light on this puzzle, I’d be delighted to hear of it. Lucy is a direct ancestor, and it would be great to learn more about her.

    This site, incidentally, is a brilliant example of what all communities could be aiming to achieve.

    • Dave Reply

      Ken,
      I recall looking at this issue some years ago when I started to put these records together … and the conclusion I came to then was that Lucy and Sarah were the same person, not finding any evidence to contradict that conclusion (of course, ‘not finding evidence’ is not the same as ‘no evidence exists’ !!)

      In this reply I include detail which you are no doubt aware of but which others may read and perhaps offer their own ideas ?

      George Winfield’s wife seems to have started and ended her life as ‘Lucy’
      She was baptised as Lucy Harison at Crich in 1785, daughter of Thomas (and Ann (nee Harrison) ?)
      She married George as ‘Lucy’ on Dec 26th 1807.
      She died as Lucy Winfield on Feb 9th 1876 at Ebenezer Street, Ilkeston, aged 92, when she was described as the’widow of George Winfield, framework knitter’, her son George being present at the death. She was buried at St Mary’s Church on Feb 11th.
      However as you point out Ken, George’s wife is at times referred to as ‘Sarah
      She is ‘Lucey’ at the baptism of her children in 1814, yet ‘Sarah’ at further baptisms in 1822 and 1824.
      On the 1841 census she is Lucy and in 1851 is Sarah, and back to Lucy in 1861 and then Sarah in 1871. The proximity of Winfield children on these censuses suggests that Lucy and Sarah are the same person.
      I find it difficult to believe that different people made the same ‘mistake’ in recording her name as Sarah at significantly distinct times. My conclusion is that she may have referred to herself as ‘Lucy Sarah'(not a combination of names that crops up a lot ?) or simply ‘Sarah’
      All circumstantial and inconclusive I am afraid.
      Perhaps if George had left a will ??

      Dave

  5. Julia Fogarty Reply

    Hi Dave
    I have been researching my family for several years and you have solved a mystery for me – thanks you!
    I am a descendent of Henry Tomlinson, who you wrote a fascinating piece about: he’s my great great grandfather ( I think? His daughter Ellen was my mother’s grandmother) and I have been puzzling over who Henrietta was as she’s so much older than Ellen, who I thought was her sister. My mother recalls having two great aunts, Hannah and Kate. Are these the other two children Henry had with Mary Hannah do you know? I had come to the conclusion Kate may have been a cousin (daughter of Henrietta?) but can’t remember why I thought that.
    So pleased I found this site. I hope to visit Ilkeston some day to explore properly.
    Many thanks

    Julia,
    I have posted a reply to your comments at ‘Tomlinson family‘ in the Comments Summary section.

  6. Sue Fardon Reply

    Hello,
    I am looking for the school my G G Grandfather first worked at when he moved from Ipswich to Ilkeston.
    His name was William Nunn. I know he worked at Little Hallam but have no idea the name of schools from the area,I have been told there was a Sanatorium on Long Field Lane but again do not know if he would of taught there ?He did end up being the Relieving officer for Ilkeston and surrounding areas,taking local people to the Basford Workhouse ,Nottingham on his pony and trap.

    Sue,
    It appears that William came to Ilkeston in the mid or late 1870’s
    I have discovered a note in the Nottingham Journal newspaper (Jan 21st 1876) stating that William had just been appointed Relieving Officer to the Basford Union, having previously been schoolmaster at the Basford Union Workhouse … his place as schoolmaster was then taken by John William Hope previously of Carlisle.
    From 1881 William is described as relieving officer, so it appears that he would only have a few years as teacher.
    In Ilkeston in the 1870’s there were two main schools only … the British Schools in Bath St. and the National schools (see the section on Education in Ilkeston)
    Dave

  7. Nicky Stavrides Reply

    Hi!
    My grandmother, Millicent May Pashley (nee Beardow) was born in 1928 in Ilkeston to Henrietta Beardow and a Sidney Kerry. She had nothing to do with her father as she was illegitimate and does not recall anything about him.
    We would like to know more information about her maternal grandparents. Frank Brown Beardow (a Bargee) and Clara Beardow (nee Tompkins). Any information on any member of the family would be great! Millie (as she is more commonly known as) is well and still manages to travel to Cyprus every year to visit her daughter, grandchildren and great grandchildren!
    She has fond memories of her school years and recalls her classmates Gladys Kerry, Jean Toplis and Maureen Swan at Chaucer school (1937-1939) as well as Kath Butler, Kath Becket and Jean Wheatley from Bennerley school (1942 leavers).

    From Dave … I will post a reply in the ‘Comments Summary’ (under the Beardow family)

  8. Julie Walton Reply

    Hello,
    Just a quick question. In regards to the information you have on burials of people in Ilkeston what does SM mean under ‘place of buriel’?

    Dave replied …

    It refers to ‘St. Mary’s Church’, the parish church in Ilkeston, where most (but not all) of the dead of Ilkeston were buried, until the General Cemetery in Stanton Rd, Ilkeston, was opened in 1864.
    I should have provided a ‘key’ for the entries … it will appear ‘shortly’ !!

    Julie then replied …

    Thanks

  9. Brenda Sweeney Reply

    Hello Dave,
    It’s been a little over a year since you helped me immensely with my Ilkeston ancestors, for which I am very grateful.
    Lately, my research has been stalled. I seem to be hitting brick walls everywhere I turn and so I took a little break. But I guess that’s all a part of the journey of genealogy!
    Today, I decided to hop on the site after being away for a time and I noticed a post by “Donna” in April of this year and it turns out we must be distant cousins as Willoughby Simpson is her 5x’s gr grandfather and my 4x’s gr grandfather. I was so surprised… I could hardly believe it.
    I have left a reply to her post, but as she doesn’t appear to have been back since her post, I was wondering if there is anyway you have of contacting her? I know part of leaving a comment is leaving your email address and I didn’t know if that was available to you?
    I would really love to “compare notes” with her and I wondered if there’s any way you are able to contact her through her email? I will keep checking back either way in hopes that she may see my reply to her.
    Thanks so much,
    Brenda Sweeney

    Hello Donna,
    I was very surprised to see your post today! Willoughby and Mary Hardy were my 4x great grandparents! Willoughby Jr and Harriet Hardy were my 3x great grandparents! But like you, I’ve been unable to find Willoughby Sr’s parents as of this date. I realize your post is almost 3 months old here, so I’m not sure if you will even see my reply. I do hope so! I would be very interested in communicating with you, if you wouldn’t mind, to compare some notes possibly?
    I’m not sure of any other way to contact you, so I do hope you see this message.
    Brenda Sweeney

  10. Jeanene Schapel Reply

    Good afternoon

    I am tracing my ancestors the Attenboroughs’. George Attenborough left Ilkeston to travel to South Australia in 1825, his father being John Attenborough born in 1800. George’s daughter Elizabeth is my great-grandmother. I have found the Old Ilkeston site has been most helpful in describing their way of life and occupations.

    I am writing to request a digital image of The Sir John Warren Hotel (34) and also permission for its use.

    The reason I am request this is that I am putting together information relating to my English ancestors for my immediate family. My intention is that the information will be for my family only and not for general distribution. To be able to use the image on your www page would add to our understanding of the type of buildings of that period. If a digital image is available the quality will be much better. Acknowledgement of your assistance will be shown.

  11. Sandra Ibbotson Reply

    I am researching a tree for a freind and I have just established that Emma Bostock and Thomas Davis married at Bath Street Methodist church in 1870 (source findmypast). What I would really like to know is who Emma’s father was. As I am struggling to find any further information about her prior to her marriage. According to census returns she was born in Mosbrough. I am hoping you may have access to these records? Many thanks in anticipation.

    Sandra

    • Dave Reply

      Sandra,
      Thomas and Emma were married at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel on South* Street on June 6th 1870.
      My viewing of the census (1871-1911) shows that Emma was born in Ilkeston … I believe she was the daughter of John and Christiana (nee Hart) and born on May 19th 1848.
      She appears in Ilkeston on the 1851 and 1861 censuses as Emma Bostock.
      (If you probe the children of Thomas and Emma, especially their daughter Ada, born on June 30th 1881, you might find a connection to the Johnsons of Ilkeston)

      *corrected from Bath Street

  12. Victoria Hardy Reply

    Hi Dave,
    I am researching my Harrison side of my family.
    There is a lot of stories from different members but I have recently spoken to my cousin who believes that our Harrison’s started in Derbyshire. Four children … the only dates I have are for twins William and Joseph born in 1830 to a Thomas Harrison and lived in Hollinsclough. The other two children were Sarah and Thomas. Joseph moved to Manchester and got married to a lady called Alethea and he was a spirit dealer and inn keeper.
    I have tried to research the Harrison family for a while as we are all on Merseyside and i have not found the link. If I can help anyone and they can help me I would be really grateful
    Regards
    Victoria Hardy

    • Dave Reply

      Victoria,
      It looks like twins William and Joseph were born on May 3rd 1829 at Hollinsclough, and baptised at Longnor, Staffordshire on Apr 2nd 1843 .. sons of Thomas, a brewer, and Sarah.
      Sarah was born at Birmingham, Warwickshire, about 1791.
      As you say Joseph moved to Manchester and on the 1851 census is living there with his unmarried brother Thomas (aged 33, born in Hereford)
      Joseph married Alethea Davies, (daughter of Edward and Elizabeth?) in 1852 at Manchester .. she was also born in Herefordshire, at Lyonshall?
      From the census, it seems that father Thomas the brewer died between 1851 and 1861 and that mother Sarah died after 1861, (perhaps in Manchester?)

      As yet I cannot see a connection between this Harrison family and Derbyshire … perhaps your cousin has more clues?
      However I will post your request on the site .. in the Harrison families (see Comments summary) and in the ‘Help‘ section

  13. Natalie Smithson Reply

    Edward Brocklehurst is my great-grandfather and his brother Enoch is my great (grand-)uncle.

    My grandma is Alice May Brocklehurst Bamford, the illegitimate daughter of Edward Brocklehurst and Florence Bamford. On her birth certificate, the birth date is shown as 5th May 1920 at Greasley, Basford, Nottinghamshire, (mother Florence Bamford , domestic servant and living at Bennerley Cottage, Awsworth , father Edward Brocklehurst); the birth was registered on the 8th June 1920.

    Edward’s name is on this certificate although there is a line through it, and someone (I’m guessing Edward) has visited on the 12th June and had the registrar put a line through his name … to hide his ways perhaps ? I have a copy of this birth certificate, but I had to apply for it myself as my grandma destroyed most related document.
    Edward never married Florence … and he didn’t hang around for long either !!

    However my grandmother kept some contact with Edward …. he was at her wedding for example , and I know that she did attend his funeral … he lived (his later life) in Huddersfield and I know he died in the 1950’s (1954?) … I have a newspaper cutting of his death.

    My grandma was very secretive about Edward and now I think I understand why; I only have one picture of Edward in his later life and its stamped foreign office in the corner.

    I have been trying to solve the secret of why my grandma never spoke about her father, or kept any documents or photos … rumours were of someone doing wrong but we thought it to be a brother of my grandmother (whom we have no proof existed)

    My grandma Alice married Bernard Taylor on Christmas Eve, 1940 … it was a register office wedding… the marriage will probably have been in either Doncaster or South Elmsall which is where Bernard was from.
    My father is their son, Keith Taylor, an only child, who died 13 years ago, aged 56 years.

    My grandma Alice often saw Edward’s brother Enoch and his wife … they often came to visit my grandma …. he’s the only relative we have pictures of, and my dad remembers his wife seeming a bit ‘stuck up’

    My grandma Alice died in 1993 (Sheffield District)
    There’s speculation that she also had a brother called William (Billie) born to her parents Florence and Edward , but I can’t seem to find evidence he really existed.
    Physically, I do have Edward’s nose and my grandmother looked a lot like him. I must say he wasn’t the brightest of criminals and he didn’t seem to learn his lesson … I wonder if he continued into old age thieving and ‘womanising’ ??

    This is an edited version of the emails Natalie has sent (May 17th – May 20th 2017) ….

  14. Donna Reply

    Hi,
    My name is Donna. I am researching the Simpson family from Ilkeston …Willoughby and Mary (Hardy) who had Willoughby jr (who married a Harriet (Hardy)) … my great grand parents x5.
    Any information would be great regarding their parents please
    Thanks Donna

    • Brenda Sweeney Reply

      Hello Donna,
      I was very surprised to see your post today! Willoughby and Mary Hardy were my 4x great grandparents! Willoughby Jr and Harriet Hardy were my 3x great grandparents! But like you, I’ve been unable to find Willoughby Sr’s parents as of this date. I realize your post is almost 3 months old here, so I’m not sure if you will even see my reply. I do hope so! I would be very interested in communicating with you, if you wouldn’t mind, to compare some notes possibly?
      I’m not sure of any other way to contact you, so I do hope you see this message.
      Brenda Sweeney

  15. William Birch Reply

    Fascinating material. My Grandfather, Joseph Smith, was born and bred in Ilkeston. His father was named William. The family eventually moved to Edlington, Yorkshire, to work in the newly sunk mine, Yorkshire Maine. Both William and son Joseph worked there: my Grandfather until he retired, nearing 70! He often spoke of The Flowerpot P.H. Have you come across any material re the family. With Thanks, William Birch.

    • Dave Reply

      William,
      I’m afraid I need a bit more information … it is not clear what period you are asking about.
      The newly sunk ‘Yorkshire Maine’ might suggest some time in the early 20th century?
      A few dates would help … especially with a name like Smith !!

      P.S I think I may have identified your Joseph Smith … born at 8 Tutin Street, Ilkeston on February 26th 1891, the son of William and Elizabeth (Richards)
      The parents were married in 1886 at Babbington Chapel in Nottinghamshire.
      This was after Elizabeth had given birth to an illegitimate daughter Sarah Richards later known as Sarah Smith .. most probably William was the father.
      Sarah was the first of at least 10 children (up to 1911)

      Mother Elizabeth was born at Grass Lane, Ilkeston on Sep 18th 1866, the daughter of coal miner Samuel and Harriett (Chapman).

      The Smith family spent most of their Ilkeston life in Chapel Street or Chapel St Row .. and so would be well-acquainted with the Flower Pot Inn a one minute walk from their home !!

      I won’t go on as this may be the wrong family !!

      Dave

      • William Birch Reply

        Sorry for delay, as I have been away. Thank-you for the information, and the time you have spent on the research. . I think that you have the correct family.

  16. V Cole Reply

    Lizzie Jane Tatham was my grandmother. My mother was born in 1894 and lived to be 109. It seems that the family did not know of her existence. I do not think I ever met my grandmother though my mother did know her in spite of having been brought up by foster parents

    • Dave Reply

      Thanks for this, ‘V’
      There would seem to be quite a lot of family history here !!?

      Dave

  17. Billy Boy Reply

    Hello Dave
    Re. the recent article on Allen Tatham.
    Just an idea, but if you look at the picture of Edmund Tatham Jnr. in your section Flints.. On the East Side. He does look very like the second image of the persons unknown. He is, of course, Allen’s brother who withdrew from the company. Just a thought. Have compared them side by side to reach this thought.

    Reply … thanks Billy Boy ….. certainly a possibility.
    It seems that photographer Henri Louis Morel (born abt 1859 in Boulogne sur mer) married in Nottingham in 1883 and was working there from the mid- 1890’s onwards.
    Dave

  18. Pamela McKirdy Reply

    A message from Pamela McKirdy in Wellington, New Zealand …

    I am interested in a Joseph Moore born about 1820, son of William Moore and Ruth Davis of Shipley. Joseph was transported to Tasmania in 1845.
    I would like to know what became of him, because he could be the same person as my husband’s ancestor who lived in Hobart, Tasmania in the 1850s.
    The Tasmanian Archives have his convict records which list his age (born around 1822) and say he was from Shipley Wood, Nottinghamshire. One of the documents lists his brothers and sisters: Jeremiah, John; Mary, Martha, Sarah, Margaret, Fanny, so I’m confident he is a brother in the family of William and Ruth. His occupation was “collier” but I think that was the work he was doing in Tasmania. He was transported on the Ratcliffe 1845 ex London. One of his tattoos said “SIHB” (I have no idea what that might stand for), and his crime was desertion from 32 Regt 5 ….(hard to read!). http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON14-1-20,338,311,F,52

    I would really like him to be my husband’s ancestor Joseph Moore born 1819-1821 in England and living in Hobart from at least the mid-1850s, but so far I can find nothing that might connect the two men, apart from their ages and that they were both Methodist. Joseph the Convict was a tall man for his time and Joseph the Tasmanian’s son was also tall. Unfortunately the Tasmanian marriage and death certs don’t list parents.
    If anybody can help I would be very grateful.

  19. Chris Wood Reply

    I have a Beardsley family who don’t seem to be in your census list for 1841 and 1851. Does your website cover Ockbrook?
    Isaac Beardsley was born in Kirk Hallam around 1792 and married Mary Dowman in Ockbrook in 1823. He was a frame smith for most of his life, then became a beer retailer. They lived in Ockbrook and had children Thomas, Ann, Harriet, John, Elizabeth, Caroline, Edward up to1841, then Hannah and Jane. I am trying to find Isaac’s parents from Kirk Hallam. Isaac died in Ockbrook in 1864. I am overseas so haven’t been able to visit these places yet and others have told me that some of the parish baptism records are not yet on line.
    Thanks
    Chris

    • Dave Reply

      Chris,

      The site tries to concentrate upon Ilkeston, though we have wandered to other neighbouring places occasionally. Ockbrook doesn’t often feature.
      I am sure you realise that Isaac Beardsley and his family were living at Ockbrook on the 1841,1851 and 1861 censuses.
      As you point out, he appears to have been born at Kirk Hallam about 1792.
      In the baptisms records of Kirk Hallam Church there is no entry for Isaac at any time, though there are quite a few Beardsley family records for around the second half on the eighteenth century and into the next century.
      Had he been baptised it may have occurred in a nearby village/town … Mapperley, West Hallam, Stanton by Dale, Shipley/Heanor ?

      I will post your query on the site to see if anyone else has any ideas.

      Dave

  20. David Harrison Reply

    Would you please ask Linda Mott to contact me re the Harrison conundrum.
    After 15 years of research I believe I have solved the riddle of Joseph Harrisons birth and his Ancestry

    • Dave Reply

      David,
      Unfortunately I don’t have Linda’s email address.
      I tried to contact her via this site in October (see Harrison familes) but so far without success.
      As you can see I have posted your request on the site and hopefully Linda will see it at some point.
      I will also post in in ‘Help, I need somebody’.

      Dave

      • David Harrison Reply

        David
        Thanks for trying. Are there any Harrison Researchers who might be interested in my research.
        I am a GGGrandson of Joseph Harrison by way of his son John, his grandson William, and his great grandson William.

        regards

        David Harrison

        • Dave Reply

          David,

          I will post your question on the site .. there doesn’t seem to be a shortage of Harrison researchers.
          As you may have noted there are a lot of mysterious Harrisons floating around this site, mentioned by Adeline Wells. Perhaps if we all put our heads together they might make more sense.
          If you would like to pass on more information about your line I could find a space for it somewhere I am sure !!
          I am always on the lookout for help with the Ilkeston Harrisons.

          Dave

  21. Richard Henshaw Reply

    In the grand tour a JAMES SMITH is reported to have died as a result of a brawl in 1841. JAMES was my 3 x great grandfather and is buried in the church yard. One of his daughters, ALICE, married ELIJAH HENSHAW.
    The wife of JAMES was ELIZABETH RICE but I cannot find her birth or who her father was.
    I hope you can help with this gap in my family history.
    ELIJAH and ALICE had 3 sons WILLIAM after ELIJAH’s father, JAMES after ALICE’s father and
    RICHARD. I am the 4th RICHARD in a direct line to this RICHARD.

    • Dave Reply

      Most of the information I am including into this email you probably already know. Hopefully it will also set the identity of Elizabeth Rice into some context, and hopefully others might chip in.

      James Smith, cordwainer, married Elizabeth Rice at St Mary’s in Nov 1812.
      James died in 1841, aged 49. At that time they were living in Chapel Street.
      Elizabeth continued to live in the same street as a widow for the rest of her life, and died on December 16th 1872, aged 80.
      Although registered death ages at this time are not to be relied upon to be totally accurate, other evidence … especially her ages recorded on the censuses … all point to her being born about 1792.

      Now the Rices and the ‘cordwaining’ Smiths both had a long and abiding relationship with Chapel Street … as indeed did Elijah Henshaw (who lived there with his wife Alice) and who died there in 1882. In fact Chapel St was sometime referred to as ‘Rices Lane’ because there were so many of that clan born or living there in the 1850’s and 1860’s. This would suggest that Elizabeth was one of them.

      If you look at the 1841 Census you will see that of these Chapel Street Rices the oldest ones were Richard and Martha (nee Chadwick). They married on Oct 17th 1791. Now I think I can identify seven of their children from the baptisms at St Mary’s Church … the first one being Joseph Chadwick Rice in April 1794. There is no baptised daughter Elizabeth however but you might note a gap between the date of their marriage and the baptism of this ‘first’ child.

      Richard Rice died on Oct 4th 1852, aged 83 and fortunately left quite an extensive will, dated January 7th 1847 … in it he mentions his wife Martha (who was to die on Dec 31st 1857, aged 89), sons Joseph, Samuel, James, Richard (all of whom were baptised at St Marys) and John (whose baptism I haven’t found), daughter Sarah (who is described as the wife of William Potter), daughter Martha (described as the wife of John Beardsley) and finally daughter ‘Elizabeth Smith, widow’.

      Looking for an Elizabeth Rice who married a ‘Smith’, whose husband died before 1847, and who was still alive as a widow in 1847, I can only find one …the one you are asking about…. who would fit neatly into the gap between the marriage date and the baptism dates.

      Other circumstantial evidence concerns the proximity of the Smiths and Rices on the census?

  22. Peter Watson Reply

    Hi loved the info about the Dawson’s but would like to trouble you about finding out more about them as My grandmother was also a Dawson. Her name was Hannah and was the daughter of Peter Pearson Dawson, who was the brother of the William Dawson Jnr in this article and I would so much like to find out more about William senior as I believe he was from a boat family as the earliest I can find someone to match is William Dawson age 20 in Barlaston as a boat builder in 1841 and every subsequent detail matches your article. So any help would be appreciated. I was aware but have never traced a member of the family who actually created the Dawson family tree and had over 800 living relative but this was over 10 years ago or such.

  23. Sonia Limm Reply

    I am researching my friend’s family tree for them and am looking for information on George Dennis Straw who was born in 1916 in Basford.
    He married a Joan Margaret Bantock in 1939 in Ilkeston and died 21st July 1969.
    I am wondering whether any of your readers have any information on them in particular if they are buried locally or if anyone knows who Joan’s family were.
    Thank you

  24. Dave (for Linda Mott) Reply

    For Linda Mott (and other Harrison researchers) … (Oct 22nd 2016)

    I have been examining the will of Joseph Harrison of Ilkeston, who died on June 15th 1832.
    His wife was Hannah (though she may have been his second wife and so not the mother of Joseph’s children) — he had sons Joseph, John, Christopher and daughter Mary all mentioned in the will.
    I believe that Christopher was ‘Kester’ Harrison, hosier of Derby Road who is mentioned on the site.
    Son John was a hosier living at Derby … I think he is at Lodge Lane in 1841
    Son Joseph was a framework knitter living at Horsley at the time of Joseph’s death … this could be the one married to Sarah Foster in 1805, the couple who had a daughter Sarah (married to William Thompson).

    P.S. I have also updated and ‘corrected’ some information of the Carrier family which might conflict with detail I gave you earlier.

    (Apologies that I no longer have your email address and so could not contact you directly)

  25. Gary Moss Reply

    When did the flower pot pub close?

    Thanks for helping me with local history advice and dates

    • Dave Reply

      Gary,

      I am not aware of the precise date of its closure.
      It stood not far from where I lived in Ilkeston and I recall a few occasions when I visited it in the late 1960’s and early 70’s.
      It closed and was demolished in the 1990’s … another sacrifice to the Chalons Way ?, although not on the direct route (there is a car park there now)… but the exact year I don’t know.
      Perhaps someone else could help?

      Dave

  26. Jon Baldwin Reply

    Hi Dave, I’m doing some local history research in the area where I live, which is Belper, I am trying to find information relating to a Thomas Machin, who was deaf and dumb or mute, you have some information about him, where he was a photographer in Ilkeston, and you have stated that he described himself as a “mute photographic artist”, where did you get this information from, was it a newspaper advert and have you got any more information regarding Thomas Machin. Your description of him would suggest that he ended up at Belper doing photography etc but I cannot find any information about him doing that, but it is true that he did live in Belper in fact he died in Belper and I have got a story from the local paper about him, because he was a well known local character. Any help would be much appreciated.
    Jon

    • Dave Reply

      Jon,
      I can’t add a great deal to Thomas Machin other than what I put on the site.
      He did advertise in the Ilkeston press in 1858 .. for example, in the Ilkeston Pioneer, Apr 1858 (a copy held at Ilkeston Reference Library) he advertises as ‘a mute photographic artist’ at Mr Mellor’s Garden in the Market Place, Ilkeston, open 9am till Dusk. (That would be John Mellor the butcher)
      On both the 1861 and 1871 census he is an artist, and an annuitant in 1881…. ‘deaf and dumb’ from birth.
      He seems to have made only a fleeting appearance in Ilkeston.

      I would be very interested in the story you have about him.

      Dave

      • Jon Baldwin Reply

        Hi Dave, thank you for the newspaper advert, I have found him on the 1861 and 1881/1891 but not the 1871 census can you send me a copy of that please, I will send you the newspaper article that I have, it would add to the story that you have about him on your site. Do you know of any photographs that were done by him of buildings/street scenes, that have turned up, that could perhaps be in my area, I would imagine that he took pictures or painted everything around him, and with him living at the Belper Pottery, and possibly working for them as their Artist at one stage, I was hoping to one day find some interesting pictures of the Pottery and the surrounding area, as yet there are no known pictures of the Pottery, there could be unidentified pictures that are somewhere, but I have looking but so far nothing.
        Jon

  27. Dave Reply

    To all Harrisons who may be reading this site ….

    I have received an interesting enquiry from Polly Lynn in the USA.
    I have posted it at the Harrison families section of the ‘Comments Summary‘ and also at the ‘Help, I need somebody‘ Section.

    Dave

  28. Simon Hollingworth Reply

    Simon Hollingworth August 17, 2016 at 8:52 am
    Hi Dave, I am member of the Hollingworth family of Dale Abbey. My line has been closely connected to the Daykin family for a number of centuries in villages such as Spondon, West Hallam etc. My family originally came from Cheshire, where they are related to the parent branch of the Bostocks of all people. I am a keen historian and have much of my family’s history back to 1145. A considerable amount of research has been gathered for this part of Derbyshire as well. Happy to share any of our family records with you.

    Kind regards

    Simon Hollingworth (ex Dale Abbey, Breadsall, West Hallam, Spondon, Ockbrook, Stapleford, ex Hollingworth, Co Cheshire.)

    • Dave Reply

      Dave August 17, 2016 at 10:26 am Reply
      Simon,
      Thank you for the contact and the offer to share your research.
      I would certainly welcome any contributions which might add to the site and help others in their own research.
      As you will have noted from the name and the home page,’Old Ilkeston’ tries to concentrate on Ilkeston events/people/places related to the nineteenth century … although it is impossible not to ‘stray’ beyond those parameters.

      It seems that you must have a great wealth of information … if you wish to send any of it through to me, it might be best to start with that time-frame in mind (if possible) and to concentrate on the area around Ilkeston (Dale Abbey/West Hallam/Kirk Hallam/Stapleford/ etc) though I don’t want to restrict you too much.
      It would be best to send any material off-line to the site email address … dave.johnson@oldilkeston.co.uk
      Again, I much appreciate your offer.
      Dave

    • Simon Hollingworth Reply

      Dave, my Daykin connections include the following:
      William Hollingworth, Gent, a draper of Nottingham, originally from West Hallam who married Bridget Daykin in 1640.
      Mary Hollingworth of Spondon, who married, George Daykin, Gent the son of Richard Dakin Circa 1640s
      Thomas Hollingworth of Alton Hill estate at Ashover who was a supposed kinsman to George Daykin, Gent of Stubbing Edge circa 1650
      All three of these Hollingworth lines originally came out of West Hallam, and 100 years earlier from Stapleford, and prior to 1550, Hollingworth Hall at Hollingworth in Cheshire.

      Hopefully this is of interest to you.
      Cheers
      Simon Holloingworth

  29. Yolande (Hibbert) Vosloo Reply

    I am so pleased I found this site. Wish I had found it sooner, I have a Bostock/Hibbert in my Family.

    I have been trying to find a Robert Hibbert born abt 1853 Birth Certificate, born in Ilkeston, seems to be he was an Illegitimate child of Mary Hibbert. and that’s where it stops! cant find any thing. Robert Hibbert he had a daughter Elizabeth Hibbert born 1889 who married a Thomas Bostock
    Elizabeth was my grandfathers Alfred Hibbert sister. Alfred Immigrated to SA in 1921 with Rev Robert Gaskill as Alfred married to Ethel Gaskill. all seem to come from Ilkeston.
    I have just immigrated to the UK from SA. Have been doing the family research for a couple of years but getting no where. On the Marriage cert I see Robert dad was William.(which I have just found on your site! Not sure if he was a William Gray? as my father told us that our surname was Hibbert Gray, then changed back to Hibbert, and that Robert was an illegitimate child of one of the royal fam. ( I have some real look a likes in Photos). Would you be able to give me any more information on these familys, I would be grateful. I def want to take a trip to Ilkeston and see where my Family come from. I have been to Bolton as I thought they were all born there, as my grandfather Alfred was. Thank you for a interesting site. kind regards Yolande

    • Dave Reply

      Yolande,

      It seems that the information in your comment contains most of the answers to your questions.

      It would appear to me that Robert Hibbert was the illegitimate son of Mary Hibbert of West Hallam (a village geographically adjacent to Ilkeston). His birth was registered at Derby in 1852 and he was baptised at St Werburgh’s Church in that city in the same year.
      In July 1856, his mother then married William Gray (born in Radford, Nottingham but at that time lodging in Ilkeston and working at the ironworks at Stanton, again close to Ilkeston) The family then lived at what is now called the Hallam Fields area of Ilkeston …. this is close to the ironworks.
      Robert appears on the 1861 Ilkeston census as Robert Gray and as miner Robert Gray on the 1871 census.
      In Dec 1874 he married Mary Jane Dalley at St Mary’s Church, the record showing his name as Robert Hibbert (he made his mark). From that time on he seems to appear as Robert Hibbert until he died at Bolton in 1904 (?)

      Dave

      • Yolande (Hibbert) Vosloo Reply

        Thank you for coming back to me, and confirming the info that I have.
        Would Roberts real fathers name be on the Birth Certificate? I am interested to find out who his father was, also which is the best site to find such information?
        Thank you once again

        • Dave Reply

          Yolande,

          There is no guarantee that the father’s name would appear on the birth certificate … in fact is more likely that it would not appear.
          From 1837 to 1875, at the registration of the child’s birth, if the mother informed the registrar who the father was, then the registrar could record him as the father.
          However all that changed in 1875 when the reputed father had to consent to his name being recorded and was also present when the birth was registered .. but as Robert was born in 1852 this does not apply, so you may be lucky.

          If you wish to pursue this, there is no web site to find the information ..the best thing to do is send for the birth certificate, using the General Register Office (GRO) website .. just type in ‘GRO’ and look for the Certificate Ordering service … it costs about 9.25GBP (inc postage I believe)

          If you want any further help about this or the Hibbert/Bostock family, do please ask.

          Dave

          • Yolande (Hibbert) Vosloo

            Thank you so much for your help and being so helpful, I will Keep you updated.

  30. Brian Bostock Reply

    Hi Dave,
    I was wondering, do you know of any street maps from around 1800 to 1900 of the Ilkeston or Derbyshire area?
    It would be great to be able to plot the movements of my ancestors.

    Thanks,
    Brian.

    • Dave Reply

      Brian,

      Ilkeston street maps of this period are not plentiful.
      In 1866, shortly after the formation of the Local Board, that same body commissioned civil engineer Charles Sherwood Newman to produce a street map of Ilkeston for its reference … which he did. It is a splendid piece of work (in my opinion) and a copy is held at the Ilkeston Reference Library. The map is in several sections and the whole is kept in a box, for reference only. This is the first detailed street map of the town in this period and although not clear in some places, does give a lot of detail.

      The next map to be drawn up was the OS map published in 1881 (surveyed in 1879/1880) … also in several parts, kept in the same library and showing great detail of the town. It is found in several scales. Since that time useful maps are more frequent and there is certainly one of the town for 1900/1901.

      Of course you would need to visit the Reference Library which is impossible for you.?? Maybe you have a friend/associate who could do the leg work for you and perhaps take some copies? I leave that up to you. This may also offer a solution to you getting a copy of the birth certificate from the GRO?

      Looking at your Bostock line … if your William Edward is a son of William and Maria (nee Cook), I believe William senior was the son of engineer Thomas (alias One-armed Tom) and Eliza (nee Calladine). Thomas married under the name of Thomas Brown, being the illegitimate son of Elizabeth who married James Bostock in the year following her son’s birth.

      Dave

      • Brian Bostock Reply

        Dave,

        Thank you once again.
        You are a wealth of information.
        I will look into one-armed Tom.
        It truly is amazing what one finds when delving into the past.
        Guess that’s what makes it interesting. It also gives us a glimpse of how our ancestors lived and what they got up to. Wonder how Tom lost his arm, interesting.

        Keep well.
        Brian.

  31. Brian Bostock Reply

    Hello Dave,

    Thank you for your positive reply.

    This is what I have;
    Birth of my father George Edward Bostock 22 Feb 1921 residing at 49 Chaucer Street, Ilkeston.
    Father (my grandfather) W. E. Bostock and mother (my grandmother) Maud Rebecca Bostock (Isaac)
    I also have a copy of my father and mother’s wed cert (1945) with W. E. now living at 17 Park Drive, Ilkeston.
    So these are 100% correct.
    Now the problem is after searching I cannot find any information on W. E.’s relatives that are 100%.
    There are lots of Bostocks in that area but I can’t confirm a direct connection. I tried looking for people at Chaucer Street but as yet I am blank.
    So at this moment I am in a rut at which relatives are mine and W. E. (Sons, daughters, mother, father) Anything that can get me moving would be much appreciated.

    Regards,
    Brian.

    • Dave Reply

      Brian,

      I know what you mean about the Bostocks in Ilkeston !!

      I have found George Edward living at 17 Park Drive, Ilkeston in 1939.
      With him is father William Edward, a factory stoker, and his wife Maud Rebecca.
      Looking at this source, William Edward was born on Dec 23rd 1882 and Maud Rebecca on Oct 24 1889.

      There was only one William Edward Bostock whose birth was registered in Ilkeston in 1882 (as well as one William Henry Bostock who was the illegitimate son of Sarah Ann Bostock of Brussels Terrace, so we will discount him)
      It should be fairly straightforward to get the birth certificate of this William Edward and see who his parents were, etc
      However that of course costs money !!

      Looking on the Ilkeston census of 1891 for William Edward Bostock gives only one possible result … a William Bostock living in Slade Street, aged 8, the son of widower William Bostock, a coalminer (I shouldn’t worry too much about the fact that the lad is not referred to as ‘William Edward’ .. it was common for some families to omit second given names).
      Tracing the widower William back, we can find that his wife was Maria (nee Cook) who died in 1888. The family are on the 1881 census and they married at Cotmanhay in 1872.
      It is only possible that this son is the W.E.Bostock you are looking for however.

      I know that some researchers enjoy their own investigating so I won’t delve too deeply for you, but I am only too ready to share what I know with you, if you find more difficulty.
      One thing puzzles me however … I have found William and Maud Bostock on the 1911 census, living at 158 Station Rd, Ilkeston, he being a stoker. The census says that they had been married one year. I believe that shortly after this they had a son, Charles William Hill Bostock, born on Jan 12th 1912. However I can’t find their marriage on any site … I have found a marriage of Maud Rebecca Isaac to Claudius Hill in 1908 and he is living in Nottingham on the 1911 census without his wife. ??

      Dave

      • Brian Bostock Reply

        Hello Dave,

        Thank you for the information.
        In truth I was leaning towards the Maria Cook way too but have no 100% guarantee they are connected.
        As for obtaining the Birth cert for William, I would normally agree however it’s a little more complicated as I live in Thailand. I will try to get this but have no idea how long it will take or if I can do it.
        Regarding your comment about digging too far, Be my guest, as you seem more capable. However I don’t want to burden you too much so I will do what I can.

        As for Maud and Claudius, food for thought there. Some hanky panky going on? I have the birth cert for George Edward and it states W E was a boiler stoker at Chaucer Street in 1921 so this leads me to think it is the right path.

        I shall continue with this intriguing chapter.
        So again thank you so much and please dig at your own conveyance if you so wish.

        I can’t wait to see if you have any more articles like your “Ilkeston History” one.

        Regards,
        Brian.

  32. Brian Bostock Reply

    Hello Dave,
    What a great site. I find it one of the most interesting reads I have discovered yet. How you amount so much information baffles me. I congratulate you.

    Now to my question. My roots belong to the Bostock family. In your article “about the author” you mention “Chaucer Infants’ school” by any chance is that in Chaucer Street? I have a Bostock (grandfather or great grandfather I believe) at 49 Chaucer Street but cannot find any other information regarding who lived there. I loved the story about “Jonathan Trot Bostock” I wonder if he was one of my Bostocks.

    Stay well and thank you for your wonderful work.
    Brian.

    • Dave Reply

      Brian,

      Thanks for the encouraging remarks about the site.

      I would be happy to try to help you … if you could give me a bit more information about your ‘Bostock roots’ at 49 Chaucer Street. Who is the grandfather/great grandfather? What time period are you researching?

      Chaucer Infants school was indeed in Chaucer Street … but was knocked down to be replaced by housing. There is still a school retaining that name in Ilkeston, now in Cranmer Street… just a few hundred metres away from the original one.

      Dave

  33. Brenda Sweeney Reply

    Hello again Dave…

    I hope this finds you well. I’ve picked your brains before and now I’m back in hopes of learning some information about my 2 x’s great grandmother Gertrude Scattergood (nee Simpson) b.1830 and d.1865 in Ilkeston. You were so very helpful with my 2 x’s great grandfather’s line (Samuel Scattergood b.1827 and d.1883 in Ilkeston) and I’m hoping you may be able to help with Gertrude.

    As mentioned, Gertrude was born in Ilkeston on 13 June 1830 to Willoughby and Harriet (nee Hardy) Simpson. She married Samuel Scattergood on 24 Oct 1849 at St. Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. They had 6 children that I’m aware of, possibly 7. So this is where my question comes in. Allen/Alan Scattergood was Samuel’s last child (which would be his 7th), however I am trying to confirm whether Gertrude was his mother or if Samuel’s 2nd wife Jemima, whom it appears he married only a couple of months after Gertrude’s passing, was his mother. I am showing discrepancies for a birthdate for Allen/Alan.

    On the FREEbmd website I find an Allen Scattergood born in the 3rd quarter in 1865 in Basford.
    In the England Select Deaths and Burials 1538-1991 online records, I also have found a burial date of 25 Aug 1865 in Ilkeston for Gertrude Scattergood. However, I didn’t see the record of Gertrude’s burial on this site. I realize the birth records on this site don’t cover 1865 so I’m not sure where I might find something more concrete other than 3rd quarter 1865 for Allen’s birth.. My thought is that perhaps Gertrude may have died either giving birth to Allen or shortly thereafter.

    I have the 1871 census that does show Allen as aged 5 with an estimated birth year as 1866, however, if I’m correct in my thinking, because the census was carried out on 2 April 1871, if Allen was indeed born sometime in the 3rd quarter of 1865, he wouldn’t have yet had his birthday.

    If you can shed any light on Gertrude’s passing and/or Allen’s birth and my suspicions that she did pass either during or shortly after giving birth I would be very grateful.

    I absolutely love this site and I come back often to read the new inquiries you have received from others in hopes I might find a family connection to someone new. So far no luck, but I still enjoy reading all the comments and seeing the amazing amount of information you give to everyone! I have recently started researching in newspapers and have found some very interesting entries regarding the Scattergood/Simpson families… I now call them my “dodgy” ancestors. But then I remind myself that if not for them I might not be here!

    Thank you so much for all you do on this wonderful site, take care!
    Brenda

    • Dave Reply

      Brenda,

      I glad to hear that you are still enjoying the site and might continue to get use from it.

      I don’t have precise details of the birth of Allen who was, I think, the seventh child. However you should not lose sight of the fact that when you access the FreeBMB site, you are getting details of the birth registration and not details of the birth. So although the birth of Allen was registered in the 3rd quarter he may well have been born in June of 1865 or even earlier.
      You probably don’t want an extra expense but the only way to get a definitive answer to when Allen was born is to obtain the birth certificate, which will, of course give you all the details you are looking for, including who his parents were. My hunch … and only a hunch … is that Gertrude was his mother — whom you have identified died in Aug 1865.

      I have found him on the 1881 census with his father on a canal boat at Sandiacre.

      There is also the death of ‘Allen Scattergood’ in late April of 1889 at Derby .. his recorded death age was 23.
      There is coverage of this death in several articles in the Derby Mercury and of the inquest which followed it … although the paper contradicts itself on the age of the deceased. I see that you are researching in newspapers and so you may have found this already (April and May 1889).

      Dave

      • Brenda Sweeney Reply

        Hi Dave,

        Thank you for getting back to me so soon. I have to say your researching skills are obviously far more superior to mine because try as I might I am not finding anything about Allen Scattergood’s death. I am searching on http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk in the Derby Mercury and although I was able to find the death notice, I have not found anything else regarding his death or an inquest. Would you possibly have a page number(s) and date or possibly explain to me how you came across these articles. I did narrow my search to April and May 1889, but came up empty. My curiosity is piqued now… sounds like it might have been murder possibly??

        I must say, I’m never surprised by the goings on of my Scattergood/Simpson relatives. They definitely were a dodgy bunch!

        I think I will order the birth certificate for Allen also so that I can definitely confirm his parentage.

        Thanks once again Dave!

        Brenda

        • Brenda Sweeney Reply

          Hi Dave,
          Me again. My apologies… I did a little more digging and did come across the few articles of Allen Scattergood’s death. As mentioned, I’m still fairly new into newspaper research and didn’t take into account the possible misspelling of name and age variations. Well, it appears that Allen’s death was not as scandalous as a murder, rest his soul, but I have to say I do love reading of my ancestors in the paper, whether good or bad!

          Also, thank you for mentioning the 1881 census. I had not come across it in my research but when you said you found Allen with his father I started searching again and lo and behold, there they were the “Scattergones”! No wonder I didn’t find them.

          Lastly, in my original message I mentioned Gertrude’s burial in Ilkeston. I’m not finding any information on this site as to her date of death or place of burial. Would you happen to know any more details on that?

          Many thanks,
          Brenda

          • Dave

            Brenda,

            No need for apologies.
            The burial of Gertrude appears on the ‘Family Search’ site and from the information given I am almost certain she was buried at St Mary’s Church, Ilkeston. I think if you looked at the burial records of that church they would not show her date of death (just as many baptism records don’t show the date of birth)… again you would need a certificate to be sure of the death date. But it is almost certainly only a few days at most before the burial date?
            Please let me know if I can help further.

            Dave

  34. andy fox Reply

    hello ive been looking on your site and was intrested to see william tarlton butcher. i am williams great grandson and have a copy of a photo of him outside his shop(original in erewash museum)which i display with pride at my workplace the butchers at bellinis ilkeston thank you

    • Dave Reply

      Andy

      If you are willing to share the photo that you have, I would be really pleased to put it on the site.

      Dave

  35. Alodie Reply

    Hi Dave
    I’ve only recently begun to research my family tree, and came across your amazing website while looking up census forms. I really wanted to thank you for your wonderful site and all the information that you have so generously provided. It is a really warm website, and so nice to come across, it feels like a genealogy gift ! 🙂
    I love the character and feel that you give to the people and the town of Ilkeston, it really brings the place alive.

    I am descended from George Spencer and Elizabeth (Taylor), and earlier, Benjamin Spencer and Ann (Harrison).
    I would love to ask you a few questions if that is ok?

    Until then ( hopefully )
    best wishes

    • Dave Reply

      Alodie,

      Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging comments on the site … I aim to please !!
      And in that vein, let me say that I would welcome your questions … I cannot guarantee to answer them but I will certainly try, and will also put them on the site in case there are others who could help.

      Dave

      • Alodie Reply

        Hi Dave

        Thanks so much for getting back to me. I really do appreciate any pointers or help really. Like one of the comments below, i am still trying to get my head around the villages surrounding Derby.
        I might do a scattergun approach and hope that there might be some questions you can answer:)

        I would very much like to trace Ann Harrison further back ( she married Benjamin Spencer in 1811), and wondered if you had any ideas who her father was or where she might have come from?. I don’t think she was born in Ilkeston. I would love to know more about the Spencer and Harrison families ( i did read about Hillary Spencer’s suicide and Old Mary Spencer looking after the child that was killed ), but I haven’t read all the letters yet, but it’s rather dramatic so far!. I was also interested in what sort of area Park Road was situated in, and possibly the Lace Factory the Spencer family might have worked in.
        Finally ( and this one is a bit random) . William and Ruth Webster were Benjamin Spencer’s parents. Ruth Webster had a sister called Elizabeth Civica Webster. Is it possible that they have an Italian connection and would that be at all likely in 1700’s Derbyshire ?

        Please don’t feel like you need to answer any/all of these, I am actually just grateful for the information you have already supplied on your website.

        Have a lovely evening
        Alodie

        • Alodie Reply

          Hi Dave

          I’ve been reading more on your great site, and I am enjoying it so much. I love the descriptions about the railway station and its cramped conditions. Have you ever thought about writing a book?.

          I’ve been doing a bit more research and wondered if my Ann Harrison, born abt 1791 ( place unknown) might be, Nanny Harrison, born in 1791 in Ilkeston to Tim Harrison and Bennett? The mysterious Ms Bennett. I think Nanny is another form of Ann, but I could be wrong on this.
          I’m guessing also that the Spencer’s worked at Carriers Lace Factory.

          Anyway, I’m enjoying reading everything
          best wishes
          Alodie

          • Dave

            Alodie,

            Ann Spencer (nee Harrison) died in Ilkeston on Jan 16th 1846, aged 54 which would make her birth year around 1791 … without other evidence it is extremely difficult to determine her parents. As you say there is a Nanny Harrison born to Timothy and Bennett (nee Limb) in 1791 and Nanny is used instead of Ann. They did have another ‘Nanny’ baptised Dec 29th 1782 who, I believe was buried Apr 27th 1786 (as Ann, daughter of Timothy). I can’t find a record of a burial of the second Nanny.

            If you are unfamiliar with Ilkeston, there is an area called White Lion Square where several roads coming into/ going out of the town converge … Nottingham Road, Park Road, Derby Road, Stanton Road … their names indicate where they go to/come from.
            The Spencer clan lived in Park Road for many years which was basically a country lane for most of its length in the 1850’s. The cottages on it were at one end, where the road emerged into White Lion Square, and were more on its south side than its north side. For most of its length it was unpopulated and basically followed the line of the present-day Park Road, down to the River Erewash. Towards the far end of the road in the countryside and away from the workers’ houses, were two large houses …the Park and Larklands, both owned at one time by the Potter family.

            As you say the Spencers might have worked at Carriers Lace factory … I have no record of where they worked … there are perhaps more likely candidates for their employment. For example, in the 1850’s, Christopher ‘Kester’ Harrison traded in South St and Derby Road as a lace manufacturer and hosier, the Crooks family (neighbours of the Spencers) were lacemakers of this area. As the Spencers lived for several years in this area it is possible that they worked very locally, not far to walk? … though it isn’t a million miles to walk to the Carrier works off Bath St. The other large employer of lace workers was the Ball family of the Albion Works in Burr Lane/Albion Place.

            Finally the Italian connection. I assume that Ruth Webster was the daughter of William and Mary and baptised in Kirk Hallam (Feb 11 1759) .. the Elizabeth Civica Webster who you mention was baptised at West Hallam which is a neighbour of Kirk Hallam and so could easily be a member of the same family. However I am sceptical of an Italian connection .. although I would never rule anything out until there is evidence one way or the other’

            I’m afraid I can’t be more definitive in any of my answers … mainly because I don’t have the evidence.

            Dave

          • Alodie

            Hi Dave, I hope you can see this reply as i’ve had to reply under my own post as there was no reply option next to your last post.

            Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I had a few doubts that Ann Harrison was Nanny Harrison….clutching at straws maybe!. I’m leaning towards Ann Harrison being born elsewhere, as her place of birth ( Ilkeston ) would probably have been noted.

            As for the Webster family, I was curious about them because Civica is such an unusual name, so I wondered if it was an old surname or something to do with the mother’s side. Perhaps they just like reading about Roman history or something:) I guess it will have to remain another family mystery.

            Thank you for the description of White Lion Square and the roads leading off it. That has really helped me build a picture of Ilkeston and where my family lived and is very helpful. As is your information about the various lace factories. As you’ve probably guessed, I am very unfamiliar with Ilkeston, and because there are areas that I have had to research that don’t know at all, that is when I accidentally add extra relatives that aren’t mine:).
            My 3 x great grandfather George Spencer had moved his family to Beeston by the 1861 census and my gt gt grandmother moved to Leicester when she was 20 and settled there with her family. So most of that side of my family are from Leicester and Birmingham area.

            Thank you again for all your work.
            Very best wishes
            Alodie

  36. Andrew Sanders Reply

    The Sanders family of South Street/Derby Road

    A request from Andy Sanders…
    I would love to get more information on William Sanders and the other Sanders family that occupied the thatched house on South Street / Derby Road Junction. These were my great, great great & great great great grandfathers father’s. They occupied the property for 130+ years but would love to hear more. Previous to the Sanders family occupying this house it was possibly called the Cross Keys Inn and before that the Sunn Inn. I believe the property could date back as far as the 16th century. The house was finally destroyed in 1933 and the family moved around the corner to 13 Moss Road. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  37. Dave Reply

    Help wanted in Nottingham Road !!

    I have had a question from Dave Longden about what he refers to as ‘The Gatekeeper’s Cottage’ at 201 Nottingham Road. This is the white house standing on the right-hand side of the entrance road to Kensington Business Park (just south of the Tesco Express on Nottingham Road).

    He would like to know if anyone has any information on the history of this house. I couldn’t help much (no surprise there !!), but maybe someone ‘out there’ could.

    Dave

  38. Carol Reply

    Hi, Thank you for a brilliant website I have been able to complete a lot of family history as a result of your research and am hoping you may be able to give me a clue as to where to look for two missing members of the same family.

    I am unable to find births for the following people both children of John Morley, schoolmaster and Mary Henshaw :
    Solomon Morley born about 1811, he marries Mary Eaton and then Elizabeth Richards
    and
    Mary Morley born about 1826 according to the 1841 Census ( this is the Mary who had two illegitimate children with George Wright the landlord of the Spring Cottage Inn).

    Would you also have any idea which school John Morley would have been a schoolmaster.?

    Many thanks.

    • Dave Reply

      Carol,

      Thank you for the encouraging comment at the start of your question.

      I have found nine children belonging to John and Mary Morley and unfortunately Solomon is the only one I have no baptism details for. Most of them were baptised at the Ilkeston Circuit of the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel after it was formed out of the Nottingham Circuit in 1809. I have found Samuel baptised at Halifax Place in Nottingham in 1806 … Solomon’s birth was about 1808 (his recorded age at death in 1874 was 66) which should mean a baptism possibly at the same place but I haven’t found him yet. Sorry.

      As I said, most of the others were baptised at the Wesleyan Chapel, except for Mary … I have a baptism for her at Mansfield Woodhouse on June 8th 1826 which I believe I got at the County Archive in Nottingham. (And no, I have no clear idea why she would be baptised there !!)

      While Mary married locally and died at 8 Vicarage St in 1901, Solomon left to work in the Barnsley area after his second marriage. I believe his wife Elizabeth died in 1858 and he married again to a widow (?) Elizabeth Atkinson in 1859 … but you will probably know more than me about this.

      Their father John is described as a framework knitter up to about 1837 but then on the 1841 as a ‘scoolmaster’ in Cotmanhay…. as he is on the 1851 census. Quite often the census would indicate which school a master/mistress would work for …. for example if you look on the 1851 Ilkeston census you will see that Thomas Walton is a schoolmaster at the British School (Non-Conformist) in Bath Street whereas John Ryder is a master at the National School (Church of England). These were the two established schools in Ilkeston. This would lead me to suspect (and it is only a suspicion) that John Morley might have had his own Day School in Cotmanhay, and there were several of those, kept by both ‘schoolmasters’ and ‘mistresses’ in Ilkeston (see Dame schools)

      I believe that John died in January 1853 (if this is he) at the Sun Inn in Eastwood when the Derby Mercury described him as the clerk at Christ Church, Cotmanhay … maybe his ‘school’ was associated with that? …. although in 1841 that church had not yet been built.
      The Wesleyan Methodists had a chapel and Sunday School at Cotmanhay and maybe he was a teacher there. In 1851 there was a national religious census and it might be worth looking at the entries in it for Ilkeston but especially Cotmanhay, to see if John is mentioned? There is a copy at Ilkeston Reference Library and if you can’t get there I could easily have a look for you the next time I visit there.

      Sorry I have still left you with ‘gaps’ but if there is anything else I might help with, please ask.

      Dave

      • Carol Reply

        Hi,
        Thank you for all your help, once again your research has been invaluable. You gave me the possible death of John Morley Schoolmaster as being at the Sun Inn Eastwood, further research using Ancestry has confirmed John Morley was a Freemason and he attended the Mundy Grove Lodge at the Bat Inn, Kennington, Shipley Gate, Derbyshire however his sons Rowland & Solomon Morley attended the Marquis of Granby Lodge who held their meetings at the Sun Inn, Market Place, Eastwood which is where you said he may have died. It is possible he transferred to this Lodge hence his demise at this location.

        • Dave Reply

          Carol,

          Your research fills in a few more gaps.
          John Morley was buried at Christ Church, Cotmanhay on Jan 11th 1853.
          The cause of his death was initially described as’choking by meat lodged in his throat’. However his ‘friends’ later indicated that this was incorrect … death was due to ‘paralysis’. (All this was covered in the local press.. the Derby Mercury and Nottinghamshire Guardian)

          Dave

    • Carol Reply

      Hi,
      Thank you for the prompt reply, you have given me some leads to follow up. I didn’t have Samuel Morley listed as he never came up on a census but could be related as his parents John and Elizabeth married in October 1805 and the first child with documented evidence that I have is Solomon born abt 1808.

      I have another query which you may be able to solve:
      I have four generations of Rowland Hill Morley starting with the son of John Morley (schoolmaster) and Elizabeth Henshaw the name continues through each generation and finally dies out in 1968 as my husbands uncle remained a bachelor. My problem is I cannot find a link to the name Hill. Some descendants are not baptised with the name Hill Morley but it is entered on their death certificates and in the family Bible. Have you come across the surname Hill in Ilkeston or Nottingham?

      Thank you
      Carol

      • Dave Reply

        Carol,

        The baptism of Samuel can be found in the records of the Halifax Place Wesleyan Chapel in Nottingham, on Oct 13th 1806, son of John and Mary of Cotmanhay.
        I believe that he had a short life, being buried at St Mary’s Church on Sep 6th 1809, aged 3 years.

        I was unaware of the line of ‘Rowland Hill Morleys’ which you are puzzled by. The only Rowland Hill I am aware of is the reformer who had a hand in the establishment of the so-called ‘Penny Post’.
        The name Roland/Rowland seems to come from the Henshaw side of the family but I have no information on the name ‘Hill’ intruding into this line, as yet. Sorry.

        Dave

  39. John Daykin Reply

    Dear Dave, I am an avid follower of your site, especially the latest project concerning photos and information on Stanton Road cemetery, but the last entry dated 26th March has me confused. It concerns the gravestone of the children of Amos and Sarah Beardsley (nee Birch) and the first child buried – John Albert 1864.
    According to the burial records listed previously on your site commencing 1864 there is no mention of John Albert, but seven more Beardsley children from 1868 to 1880. Is this initial burial entry in 1864 missing from the records??
    Also have you a photograph of the entire Beardsley gravestone, or just the top section relating to the first burial??
    Regards, John Daykin

    • Dave Reply

      John,

      With regards to the ‘missing’ burial of John Albert 1864, two possibilities spring to my mind ..
      a) the infant was buried elsewhere, possibly at St Mary’s or at Kirk Hallam, though I don’t have the full burial records of either of these places to confirm or deny this possibility.
      b) he was buried at Stanton Road but the burial is missing from the records. This would be an error on the part of those keeping the accounts …. as you can see all the burials were numbered and there is no break in the numbers for 1864.

      The actual gravestone was most probably made after the deaths of all the children listed on it .. ie post 1878. It is more of a remembrance stone and so wouldn’t necessarily mark the site of John Albert’s resting place.

      I have attached all the photos I took of the stone (off line) but if you want one that shows the whole list, it would be no trouble for me to take another one on my next visit
      Dave

  40. Diane Reeve Reply

    Is there any literature about the Sanatorium on Longfield Lane. My husbands great grandfather John Hawley died there on 26 Sept 1898 of Enteric Fever (typhoid?)

    • Dave Reply

      Diane,

      I would think that a possible source of information might be found at Ilkeston Reference Library. Its first-class index should quickly tell you if it holds anything to help you.

      I have just found a snippet in the Nottingham Evening Post for April 1891 … an article stating that a letter from Ilkeston Corporation about charges for the care of fever cases at the Sanatorium. There are several other articles in the same newspaper and in the Derby Telegraph on the Sanatorium covering the next ten years.
      I found them using the Findmypast website (subscription). If you don’t have access to this you could try Ancestry.co.uk which is available free at Ilkeston Library.

      I expect that you might want something a bit more substantial, or you might want a specific question answering?

      Can anyone help?

      Dave

  41. Dennis Ryan Reply

    Regarding Giant Sisson 1781-1847
    I am lead to believe that he wasThomas Sisson 1797-1880 and he married Elizabeth Black 1802.
    Could this be so.
    Regards Dennis Ryan

    • Dave Reply

      Dennis,

      I have commented on Giant Sisson in reply to a previous post … see the Sisson Family in the Comments Summary

      In ‘The History of Ilkeston’ (page 249) by Trueman and Marston the authors refer to the great-grandson of Giant Sisson who lives in Church Street (in 1899). This would be miner Thomas Sisson, born in 1867, married to Maria Henshaw in 1894 and living at 15 Church St, Cotmanhay in 1901.
      His parents were Thomas Sisson and Louisa (nee Aldred) married in 1862, his paternal grandfather was Thomas Sisson born in 1814 and married to Elizabeth Stirland in 1834, and his great grandfather Thomas ‘Giant’ Sisson died on May 17th 1847, aged 66. His widow Sarah (nee Smith) died on Dec 9 1859.

      You mention a Thomas Sisson born in 1797 and dying in 1880 … Thomas Sisson, married to Elizabeth Stirland died in 1880 but he wasn’t born in 1797. I have no record of a Thomas Sisson born in 1797 or thereabouts.
      You mention a marriage in 1802 of Thomas who was born in 1797 … I assume that there must be a mistyping of some dates here?
      The marriage to Elizabeth Black ? … Again I have no record of this.
      I would be interested in more detail of this and the other points you raise.

      Dave

      • Dennis Ryan Reply

        Dave,
        Giant Sisson is one of my ancestors.
        My Grandmother Louisa Sisson 1888-1975. her father Joseph Granville Sisson 1856-1910,her mother Sarah Lawton Smedley 1857-1930,Grandparents Thomas Sisson 1815-1880 & Elizabeth Stirland 1816-1884 (1871 census 17 Church Street ) Great Grandparents Thomas Sisson 1797-1880 & Elizabeth Back 1802,can you put me right on the later please,

        • Dave Reply

          Dennis,

          Louisa Sisson was born in 1886, the daughter of Joseph Granville (1855-1910) and Sarah Lawton (nee Smedley) … the latter was born on July 20th 1856 and died on Dec 21st 1930.
          Joseph Granville Sisson was the youngest son of Thomas and Elizabeth (nee Stirland) who had married on May 22nd 1834.
          Thomas Sisson was baptised at St Mary’s Church on January 14th 1814 and died on Dec 3rd 1880 at Cotmanhay, with a registered age of 65. The baptism record of St Mary’s appears to show that his parents were Thomas (Giant) Sisson and ‘Elizabeth‘… I believe that the latter entry is an error and the mother should be ‘Sarah’. There is no marriage I could find of a Thomas Sisson and an Elizabeth …. there is a marriage of Thomas Sisson to Sarah Smith on Aug 31st 1805 and after this date there are the baptisms of several children born to Thomas and Sarah from 1806 to 1825 … during that time there is only one baptism for ‘Thomas and Elizabeth‘.
          On the 1841 census Thomas ‘Giant’ Sisson is living at Cotmanhay with his wife Sarah, his son Aaron (the second), Aaron’s wife Hannah (nee Taylor), and Thomas’s daughter Ann. The previous entry on the census shows Thomas Sisson junior with his wife Elizabeth (nee Stirland) and their family.

          Thomas and Sarah had several children, including twins Aaron (the first) and Moses who were born on Dec 29th 1809. Neither survived infancy however and were both buried at St Mary’s Church on Jan 30th 1810 .. when they were recorded as children of Thomas and ‘Ann‘, another error?

          Your grandmother Louisa had an uncle, Albert Sisson, an older brother of Joseph Granville, and there is a short description of him, with a photograph, in the book by Edwin Trueman called ‘Borough of Ilkeston; a portrait gallery of Forty of its Principal Inhabitants’ (published in 1911). Albert is described as “a grandson of ‘Giant’ Thomas Sisson”… this is the Thomas born in 1781 and who died in 1847, aged 66.

          As I mentioned in my last posting, I am puzzled by the ‘Thomas Sisson of 1797-1880’ and of ‘Elizabeth Back/Black 1802’

          Dave

        • Dennis Ryan Reply

          Dave,
          thank you very much for replying with your information.I think I must be in error about Thomas Sisson & Elizabeth Black (whom I think was from Kimberly)
          Cheers Dennis

  42. Mick Henshaw Reply

    Hi Dave
    As a descendent of Samuel Henshaw and Fanny Sisson (mar 1824), I was interested to see that you have noted that Samuel was the son of Samuel and Elizabeth (Smith) mar 1787. Do you have a source for this information?
    By the way,congratulations on your monumental achievement in transcribing such a huge volume of data with such accuracy.
    Cheers
    Mick Henshaw

    • Dave Reply

      Mick

      I think you are referring to my notes on the Henshaws accompanying the census transcriptions. The notes next to Samuel are in parenthesis, indicating that they are a suggestion based on the available evidence (not much of it)
      Following Samuel (or what appears to be him) around Ilkeston via the census, he seems to be estranged from his wife Fanny after the birth of 3 children and their baptisms in 1837. Fanny died in 1867, aged 67 when according to her death details, Samuel was still alive.
      Samuel was a framework knitter/stockinger by trade and I believe he appears on the Ilkeston census up to 1881, usually as a lodger or alone but never with Fanny. I lose track of him after 1881 but he may have died in 1885/6. As usual the evidence shows some variety in age but it appears that he was born about 1800.
      His locations on each of the censuses (if it is him) don’t give much of a clue as to who he is except perhaps the 1841 census when he is with others of the Henshaw clan … his brother?
      The suggestion about Samuel’s parentage is therefore just that … a suggestion, based around baptisms and census entries. Hopefully someone from the numerous Ilkeston Henshaws can add further detail ??

      Dave

  43. Christina Sharpe (Nee Shorthose) Reply

    Hi Dave
    It was great to find this website, not only for the 1841 Census but also for the 1851 Census.
    However via Ancestry.co.uk, I had found my Shorthose ancestors quite easily on their Census (originals), but I am wondering just how and where you have come across the parentage of Catherine Shorthose (nee Knighton) who married my direct ancestor John Shorthose, which you mention in this website (see below)?:-

    Shorthose Catherine w 58 Cotmanhay (nee Knighton mar 1824/ of George and Mary (Siverns) mar 1781)

    Both for 1841 & 1851 you give the exact same information, but this of course could be the way the computer has recorded it automatically perhaps?

    I have tried to find a marriage for George Knighton & Mary Siverns in 1781, but I can only find one for George Knighton and Mary Sissons – I am therefore wondering could Siverns have been written/transcribed by mistake and in reality it should be Sissons, or indeed vice versa?? I know that there were many Sissons in Ilkeston.
    see below:-

    NAME: George Knighton
    SPOUSE: Mary Sissons
    MARRIAGE: 17 Jul 1781 – Ilkestone, Derbyshire, England
    RESIDENCE: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England

    Your help and any comments would be much appreciated as I would love to get to grips with this particular family line.

    Thanks in advance

    Christina

    • Dave Reply

      Christina,

      You ask about Catherine Shorthose …
      I am wondering just how and where you have come across the parentage of Catherine Shorthose (nee Knighton) who married my direct ancestor John Shorthose, which you mention in this website

      Catherine Shorthose was born Catherine Knighton and she appears on the 1841/51/61 censuses. In 1851 she is recorded as aged 58 and in 1861 as 68. If you look at her death registration in June 1861, just after the census was taken, she is recorded as aged 66 and at her burial at Christ Church Cotmanhay she is listed as aged 67. This of course would place her birth around 1793-1795 in Ilkeston.

      This links to the baptism at St Mary’s Church, Ilkeston, of ‘Kitty Nighton’ daughter of George and Mary on Aug 4th 1793.
      George and Mary had already had a daughter Catherine born in 1789 but she had died just over a year later. In all, I can find at least ten children born to the couple, the first one being Samuel, baptised in November 1781.
      Looking for a marriage of George and Mary in the original register of St Mary’s you can find .. on Jul 17th 1781 .. the marriage of George Knighton, coalminer, to what looks like Mary Siverns, both of Ilkeston.
      There are very few other ‘Siverns’ recorded in the Ilkeston .. though the name may be written as Sivern, or Severn or Severns or Seavern or Severne. … and there are many Severns in Ilkeston.
      As you say there are also many ‘Sissons’ in Ilkeston … I see that the marriage on FamilySearch is recorded as ‘Mary Sissons’, and also on Findmypast (which uses FamilySearch).
      I suppose that ‘Sissons’ can look like ‘Siverns’ and vice-versa, though at the moment I am inclined to the latter name.

      Like several other Ilkeston families, the Knightons appear a close-knit clan… if you look on the census you will find several of the children of George and Mary living in very close proximity, all in Cotmanhay or that area.

      Catherine Shorthose died on June 14th 1861 and the informant at her death was ‘Betty Clay’. Now assuming that Betty is living in Ilkeston and is on the 1861 census, there is one candidate living in Cotmanhay, (widow of John Clay), who is also a member of the Knighton clan. There is another possible candidate … Elizabeth Clay, living in Stanton Road, who I believe was born Elizabeth Boam, married Samuel Knighton (the brother of Catherine) in 1805, and when widowed, then married Thomas Clay, in 1837. (By 1861 she was a widow once more).

      Has any of this helped? … or helped to confuse you even more?!

      Dave

      • Christina Sharpe (Nee Shorthose) Reply

        Hi Dave,
        Many thanks indeed for the speedy clarification – but you have given me lots of avenues to pursue so all is not lost!!.
        I think I must be related to half the population of Cotmanhay!! We do have Clays and Boams already on our tree, and it is getting very incestuous with the Knightons in there as well.
        I too had worked out that my Catherine Knighton/Shorthose was probably Kitty, owing to another Catherine having died previously. I certainly did not know that she was one of 10 children, as I only had 4 others (Mary, Catherine, John & Joseph) , so it would be good to have those other names, one of which you tell me is Samuel. If you have the other names I would love to know who they are.

        I was VERY interested to see that the informant at the death of Catherine was a Betty Clay (where did you find this snippet?). We do have Clays in our tree. I have indeed a John Clay with a question mark down for a wife called Elizabeth – so perhaps this is Betty?? – Can you confirm that this Betty is a Knighton please as that is how I understand your wording? However the other version of Elizabeth BOAM marrying Samuel Knighton and then later Thomas Clay is also a very possible candidate – I will delve into those too.

        Strangely enough, John Shorthose’s mother (ie Catherine Knighton’s mum in law) – Elizabeth Shorthose (nee Nash) was widowed very young and it would seem she later also married a Thomas Clay of Heanor in 1808!

        With regards to the marriage of George Knighton & Mary Siverns/Sissons: funnily enough today a very kind person (who I had contacted via Ancestry.co,uk) went to the Records office and looked up the marriage for George Knighton and Mary “Sissons” and confirmed to me that in their minds, it was definitely Sissons, but written so badly that it could easily be mis-interpreted as Siverns. So now I am still not sure which to believe as you seem to favour Siverns!!. I wonder if it would be possible to see an actual copy of the original record so that I could decide for myself?

        So YES your message has certainly helped and given me more avenues to pursue. If you could kindly clarify some of my above queries that would be wonderful. This is a wonderful website and you are doing a sterling job! Thank you.

        Regards
        Christina

        • Dave Reply

          Christina,

          Only half the population of Cotmanhay!?! Let’s see if we can add to that !!

          You ask about the children of George and Mary …
          If you have the other names I would love to know who they are.

          As first child I have Samuel, baptised at St Laurance Church in Heanor (Nov 1781). At one time he was a victualler and a beer seller and I believe he died in Nov 1836, aged 55.
          Then Elizabeth, born and died in 1783.
          Then two Marys … first one bap 1785-d 1786, second one bap 1787 – d 1790
          Polly (another Mary?) bap 1791
          George bap 1796

          And on to the Clays?

          You ask ‘Can you confirm that this Betty is a Knighton please as that is how I understand your wording?’
          On the 1861 census there is a Betty Clay (2436-012-83) at Cotmanhay, aged 64, and with her is her grand-daughter Marina Clay, aged 10.
          I believe that Betty was born Elizabeth Knighton in 1797, daughter of John and Hannah (nee Lacey). She married John Clay alias John Clay Flint in Oct 1824.
          Marina Clay alias Marina Clay Flint or Marina Flint Clay is the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann Clay or Clay Flint.
          (In May 1854 Mary Ann married Edward Wright. And then in August 1868 Marina married Thomas Baker and on her marriage certificate she gave her father as Edward Wright).
          John Clay died on Oct 24 1857, aged 60 … recorded as John Clay Flint.
          His wife Elizabeth died on Feb 22 1877, aged 80 … recorded as Elizabeth Flint Clay!!

          As for the Siverns vs Sissons problem, you write that another researcher has examined the original.
          I transcribed this part of the register many years ago when I was doing a general search. This name was of no particular significance to me at that time, so I didn’t take an overdue note of it. If your ‘friend’ has now looked again at this entry and thinks it is Sissons then I would be inclined to accept his/her judgement, or at least lean to that conclusion.
          As you know the original record is at the Derbyshire Records Office and I believe it is possible to get from there a photocopy of what you want. (I think it is part of D3082 but of course you would be more precise) Perhaps your ‘researcher’ might visit again and get a copy to send to you?!!

          If I haven’t made any of these details clear enough, please follow them up with me, … or if you question any of this or need to ask more. Do remember that this is the result only of my research so far.

          Dave

          • Christina Sharpe (nee Shorthose)

            Hi Dave, You have given me some wonderful background information recently on my extended Shorthose family from Cotmanhay (i.e. the Knightons, Clays, Boams to name but a few) and I wonder if you could now perhaps point me in the right direction for any info on the possible parentage of my 5x Gt Grandmother – Mary Sissons b. approx 1760 (no idea where?? but hopefully still local to Ilkeston???) who married George Knighton in 1781 in Ilkeston.

            Could she be related to the Sisson family (ie I am thinking of Thomas the Giant Sisson ??) but their surname is spelt without the final “s”. I cannot seem to get a grip on her parents/ her birth/baptism etc and wonder if you had come across these during your past research?
            Yours is a brilliant website and you are to be congratulated on what you have researched.
            Regards
            Christina

          • Dave

            Christina,

            I reckon George and Mary had at least 10 children, the last one being baptised at St Mary’s in 1803. Assuming that they were both alive about that time I can see only one burial for a George Knighton before 1841 and that was on April 28th 1825 at St Mary’s, when that George was aged 70, giving a birth year about 1755.
            Looking for a burial for Mary Knighton after 1803 I can find two candidates….
            Mary Knighton of Cotmanhay buried at St Mary’s in August 1827, aged 65 (birth year about 1762)
            Mary Knighton, a widow, aged 83 (birth year 1755) who was living with her son George when she died on Jan 15th 1838 at Cotmanhay.
            (There were other Marys but I have eliminated them for a variety of reasons)

            Allowing for the fact that burial ages can be somewhat inaccurate, the only Mary Sisson I can find baptised 1750-1770 in the daughter of Samuel and Mary (Garrott?) in 1767.

            I can’t find either George or Mary on the 1841 census so am assuming they were both dead.
            Mary could have remarried after the death of George? Or there is possibility that she was a widow when she married in 1781 (although at that time the vicar seems to have indicated when a bride was a widow)

            I can find no evidence that they were both born in Ilkeston/Cotmanhay so we may have to look a little wider.

            The Mary who died in 1838 had a son George who may still be alive on the 1841 census? … I can find no evidence yet that he died 1838-1841.

            I shouldn’t worry too much about the spelling of Sisson or Sissons … they seem to be interchangeable and there are many more variations, as there are with Knighton !!

            I offer a lot of assumptions but not a lot of concrete help I am afraid.

            Dave

    • Pam Bates Reply

      Hi Dave, your website is fascinating, and how interesting to read the stories! I live in far western Canada, and am related to a good many of the Old Ilkeston families through both grandparents born there, with surnames in their trees including: Beardsley, Beaumont, Birch, Goddard, Brown, Skeavington, Wagstaff, Shardlowe, Daykin, Rawdin, Gregory, Burgin-Richardson, etc. etc.; some of these relations are on both my grandparents’ trees! My question regards photos … photos … if I were to send a couple photos are you able to post them? I’d be interested in seeing others’ old family photographs as well if provided to view. I have one of my great-grandparents Amos and Sarah (nee Birch) Beardsley sitting in front of their house on (South Street) in one of the first Austin 7’s!
      Thank you for a wonderful site to refer to.
      Pam

      • Dave Reply

        Pam,

        So nice to hear from you, What a wealth of good old solid Ilkestonians you are connected to !!

        re the photos .. I would certainly wholeheartedly welcome any photos, illustrations, pictures, etc from any source (being wary of copyright of course).
        The one of Amos and Sarah sounds fascinating and if you send it to me I will do my best.

        If you could send it in jpg form? If you send it to dave.johnson@oldilkeston.co.uk I will try to transfer it to the site … with any luck!
        Let’s see how we go with that.
        And thank you so much for this offer.

        Dave.

  44. Brenda Sweeney Reply

    Hello Dave,
    I hope I’m not imposing too much, but I was wondering if you might be able to help with another question. I believe at this moment I have gone as far as I can on my Scattergood relatives, much further with your assistance than I might have gone otherwise, for which I am very thankful. However, I have now hit several brick walls so have decided to switch to the Simpsons of Ilkeston. (Gertrude Simpson having married Samuel Scattergood, my 2nd great-grandparents)
    I’m not sure if you can help to clarify something for me, but I felt it wouldn’t hurt to ask as you helped me immensely with the Scattergoods. It would appear that William Willoughby Simpson, born abt 1771 and Willoughby Simpson born abt 1804 both married women with the surname of Hardy. The elder Willoughby married Mary Hardy, (born abt 1781), in 1801. The younger Willoughby married Harriet Hardy, (born abt 1804), in 1826. On the Old Ilkeston site, the younger Willoughby is shown as being “of Willoughby and Mary (Hardy) mar 1801”,their son, however his wife Harriet Hardy doesn’t show her parent’s names. I’m wondering if you might be able to shed any light on this information. From the census for 1841 I did see that Harriet had an illegal daughter, Emmeler (aka Emily), prior to her marriage to Willoughby. I am trying to figure out if Harriet might have been related to Mary in some way prior to the marriages?
    I thank you once again for any thoughts you might have on this.
    Regards,
    Brenda

    • Dave Reply

      Brenda,
      One purpose of this site is to help researchers with problems they might have encountered and/or to suggest answers to questions that may have remained unresolved. If I cannot help then there may be others who might wish to join in. I hope so.
      Anyhow, I would never consider it an imposition if someone raised an issue via this site and asked for guidance.

      And so, on to the Simpsons!!
      Willoughby Simpson married Mary Hardy at St Giles Church in Sandiacre, Derbyshire on July 21st 1801 when the groom was described as living in Ilkeston and Mary in Sandiacre. The latter place is just a few miles from Ilkeston and between the two is Stanton by Dale.
      On the 1841 census Mary is described as being born in Derbyshire and unfortunately she died before the 1851 census .. on Feb 8th 1849 when her reported age was 68, suggesting a birth year around 1780.
      Willoughby junior and Harriet Hardy were married at St Mary Magdalene Church in Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire on Mar 27th 1826.
      Prior to that Harriet gave birth to her illegitimate daughter Emily who was baptised at the same church on Sep 2nd 1822 .. when her parents were given as Harriet Hardy and Richard Blackburn of Norton, Lincolnshire (a few miles to the north-east of Newark, (just across the Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire border).
      On the 1841 census Harriet is described as ‘not born in Derbyshire’ and she too died at Ilkeston just before the 1851 census … on Feb 19th 1851, aged 57 (thus a birth year around 1794).
      Her daughter Emily married Jonathan Eyre in 1845 and eventually left Ilkeston to settle in Nottingham where she died in 1894 (Jonathan died there in 1890).
      The places of marriage and the birth of Emily would lead me to make some suppositions … but at the moment I can offer no other pieces of detail which might help. I wouldn’t assume that the same surname could not be a coincidence however.

      Dave

      • Brenda Sweeney Reply

        Dave,
        Once again, thank you very much for your assistance. As I stated before, you have helped tremendously with the “filling in of the gaps” for me. I am so happy to have discovered this site and all it has to offer. I hope I am wrong in my assumption, but I believe my ancestors, the Scattergoods and Simpsons of Ilkeston, lived a hard life back in the 1800’s. It seems they were hard workers, at least I hope that is the case, but that they worked long hours for a pittance. I have yet to read all there is on this site and I am very interested in learning more about Ilkeston. As far as learning anything more of my relatives, sadly, I believe my search may be coming to an end. I am finding it difficult to locate information prior to 1837 with the few other resources I’m aware of (i.e. ancestry.co.uk and freebmd.org.uk), I started this search of ancestors for my Aunt who is 80 years old and knew nothing of her Mother’s side of the family. She is thrilled with all of what I have passed on to her, most coming from this site. So from her and myself, thanks again Dave!

        Regards,
        Brenda

  45. Dave Reply

    Brenda,
    Thank you for the encouraging remarks. And I am happy to see that the site is proving useful to someone.
    I well understand your frustration with the Scattergood clan … there are so many strands and research is not helped by the fact that several members had an alias surname.

    I believe that your Thomas Scattergood died in Ilkeston and was buried at St Mary’s Church on Feb 3rd 1837, aged 56. By that time his first wife Mary had died in 1827 and he had married Fanny (formerly Thompson, nee Chambers) in 1829 …. she was also on her second spouse, and after the death of Thomas she married widower James Henshaw in 1840.

    Thomas and Mary had at least 11 children and then he had another three with Fanny.

    Thomas’s death age (which of course may not be accurate) suggests a birth around 1780/1781.

    The picture is complicated by the fact that there were also several Scattergood families living in villages/towns adjacent to Ilkeston .. like Cossall, Trowell and Stapleford in Nottinghamshire, and West Hallam, Mapperley, Stanley and Stanton by Dale in Derbyshire …. and they often moved into and out of Ilkeston.
    The records of Stanley (St Andrew’s Church) show a baptism of Thomas Scattergood, in October 1780, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton).

    If there is a particular problem or a dead end that is puzzling you (or several!) please feel free to share it. If we put our heads together maybe we can make progress? Or maybe someone else will chip in?

    Dave

    • Brenda Sweeney Reply

      Hello Dave,
      Thank you so much for your reply!! I was very excited, but also a bit confused after reading your response to the mysteries of the Scattergood clan. It would seem that I have quite possibly been barking up the wrong Scattergood family tree! Your information about Thomas Scattergood, son of Thomas and Ruth (nee Barton) makes much more sense than the “hint” that was sent to me by the ancestry.co.uk website. They had suggested that Thomas was born in Fillongley, Warwickshire in 1787 and was the son of Thomas & Elizabeth (nee Wright) Scattergood of Fillongley. Obviously I now need to make corrections.
      I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone, if there were 11 children. I thought perhaps I was looking up the wrong tree again. But then I also found the 3 children Thomas had with Fanny that you mentioned. However, after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. At the time of Thomas’ death in 1837 Samuel would have only been 10 years old. I located some of his siblings through the 1841 census on this site living as lodgers with other families, but nothing of Samuel. I do finally locate him in the marriages section of this site to Gertrude on Oct 24, 1849. So it would seem all is good there.
      There is one puzzling thing… I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley. However, the1780 record is showing the given name as *Nces. Obviously a transcription error and the record has been indexed so I’m unable to look for myself. Other than that, my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born. And one other elusive relative from Staffordshire which is proving to be a royal pain in more ways than one.
      Dave, I am so thankful to you for the information you have given me. It has been very trying at times for me as I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages. Who knows, maybe one day a trip would be in order, then it might all make more sense!
      Many thanks again ~ Brenda

      • Dave Reply

        Brenda,

        Thanks for the reply which gives us something to work on.

        I was able, through baptismal records, to find 10 children for Thomas and Mary Scattergood so I’m missing someone …. Like you I have found records for 10 children. However there is an Eliza Scattergood, born in Ilkeston, who married Samuel Hutchinson in Nov 1831 at St Mary’s Church in Ilkeston. The Hutchinsons later lived in Club Row (where Fanny, the widow of Thomas Scattergood, was also living). The first child of Eliza and Samuel Hutchinson was Isaiah, born in 1832 but baptised in December 1834 at the Wesleyan Chapel when the parents of Eliza were recorded as Thomas and Mary Scattergood.The family later moved into Chapel St where Eliza died on June 26th 1871, aged 62. This would put her birth year about 1809/1810 which would fit into the family tree of Thomas and Mary (nee Gorse)? I can find no other ‘Thomas and Mary Scattergood’ in Ilkeston at this time, as yet.

        after Thomas’ death in 1837, I lose track of my great, great Grandfather Samuel Scattergood who married Gertrude Simpson. … me too !! I can’t find him on the 1841 or 51 census, nor Gertrude on the 1851 census. You would think that someone with the name Gertrude Scattergood might be relatively easy to find on the census, but then you have to remember the vagaries of the enumerators and or/transcribers. As Samuel is often described as a boatman or waterman, then this occupation could have taken him to many ‘foreign’ areas in England. I note that the Simpson family of Gertrude also left Ilkeston in 1851 and that her father Willoughby Simpson married his second wife Emma Spittle of Birmingham in Aston, Warwickshire in July 1851 (His first wife Harriet (nee Hardy) died on Feb 19 1851 at Ilkeston). So maybe they were all together somewhere (in Warwickshire? … a Warwickshire connection??) Shortly after 1851 they are all back in Ilkeston however.

        I have found 2 baptism records for Thomas Scattergood with parents Thomas and Ruth. One is dated June 1776 in Stanley and another in Oct 1780 in Stanley … Brenda there is an excellent web site on Stanley compiled by Alan Bloor …. if you type in ‘Stanley One-Place Study’ you should find it, where, amongst other details, it lists all the parish records, including those of Thomas and Ruth.

        my next quest is to find out more about Thomas and Ruth and where and when they were born …. they were married at Spondon Parish Church on Nov 20th 1765 when they were both recorded as living at Stanley (a few miles away)

        I’ve never been to England and am not familiar with all the little towns and villages … I can see that you might be very confused and uncertain abou all these small places. If you find a Google map of Ilkeston you will see it surrounded by villages/towns (most of which were very small in the nineteenth century) where there were ‘branches’ of Scattergoods.
        With Ilkeston at the centre, Cossall is at 2 o’clock, Trowell is at 4 o’clock, Stapleford is at 5 o’clock (all in Nottinghamshire), Stanton by Dale is at 6 o’clock, Dale Abbey is at 8 o’clock, Stanley and West Hallam roughly at 9 o’clock, Mapperley at 10 o’clock (all in Derbyshire).
        As I have pointed out, several Scattergoods from these places made their way into Ilkeston at one time or another. For example Joseph Scattergood was born in Stanton by Dale, son of Richard whose family kept the Stanhope Arms in that village for many years, though Joseph spent most of his life in Ilkeston.

        Dave

        • Brenda Sweeney Reply

          Dave,
          Once again, thank you for your reply and the valuable information. I did visit Alan Bloor’s web site as you suggested and found quite a bit of information re: Thomas Scattergood and Ruth Barton. I found that Ruth’s parents were Stephen and Hannah Barton. With the information regarding Thomas and Ruth’s marriage at Spondon Parish Church on 20 Nov 1765, I found that their marriage was witnessed by Luke Scattergood and G. Barton. (I’m guessing maybe Ruth’s brother Gregory?) As to Luke, maybe a brother to Thomas? The record shows Thomas’ burial date as 12 Dec 1789, however no birth date or birth place is recorded. I tried a search on Ancestry also but no results showing a Thomas Scattergood in Stanley. I found a Luke Scattergood baptized on 27 Jan 1752 in Kirk Hallam, Derbyshire, with parents Samuel and Sarah Scattergood so I tried searching Thomas in the same location with the same parents but came up empty.

          Back to Ruth’s parents, Stephen and Hannah Barton, I found a marriage recorded on 22 Jan 1729 for Stephen Barton of West Hallam, & Hannah Hunt, of Weston Underwood in the Derbyshire: Registers of Marriages, 1538-1812. Again, as I’m unfamiliar with all these little towns, I’m not too sure if this would be a possibility of being the correct parents for Ruth. West Hallam was a town name you mentioned as being close to Ilkeston and Stanley, so I am thinking (hoping) I might have the right people here. Then further to this finding, with the hopes that I have the correct Stephen Barton, I then found a baptismal certificate for Stephen Barton on 30 Dec 1702, in West Hallam showing parents John and Anne Barton.

          I have added Eliza Scattergood Hutchinson into Thomas and Mary’s family also. Thank you for that info, I can find no record through Ancestry for Eliza, but on the Old Ilkeston site I did see the record. Dave, you have really helped me to fill in a lot of the “blanks” and I am very appreciative. If you think I may have any incorrect information in the above mentioned today, please let me know your thoughts?

          Thanks again,
          Brenda

          • Dave

            Brenda,
            To me you appear to be on the right path.
            Both West Hallam and Kirk Hallam are possible Scattergood places and very close to Stanley and Ilkeston.
            The marriage of Stephen Barton and Hannah Hunt which you mention was at Derby St Alkmund’s Church.
            Press on !! And do please add any other problems or seek more advice if the need arises.

            Dave

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